john_r_smith Posted November 17, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just a thought - I don't speak or read German, so I just wondered - those of you who do, and frequent both forums - What do our German friends think about the M8 and the issues with it? Are they as concerned as the posters here? And do they have a more direct line to Leica Camera AG on the situation at Solms? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2006 Posted November 17, 2006 Hi john_r_smith, Take a look here What are our German colleagues saying? . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted November 17, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 17, 2006 I was always surprised before the M8 wass lauched that there wan't nearly as much interest on the German forum as I expected and there's much less talk about it now than on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted November 17, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 17, 2006 John, I read the german forum daily,if you think that the international one gets a bit charged ,it is nothing in comparison to what is exchanged over there. Lots of bickering between members, immense frustration at the current status of the product and disappointment at Leica for how they are managing this. There is a lot less activity and almost no user exchanges like we are seeing here, problem solving etc. In summary it is a pretty negative environment with a lot of sarcasm, but as here still many loyal followers of the brand.They share the same concerns as here and the IR filter issue is not being taken well, at all. I feel for them too! cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 17, 2006 Sorry to hear that they are bickering instead of trying to go forward.Personally i think we are doing a good job of getting these things to work. there has been many folks involved on many levels. I say keep going forward it will hopefully all work out than we can really go party Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted November 17, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 17, 2006 The chatter is along the same lines as here - as far as I can make out although not quite as militant as on this side of the pitch. Holding out until the official word comes down I expect. There is some chatter about FV v1.07 used in the new performance proof shot posted yesterday (?), I find it hysterical as it is ashot of the drummer in Mötorhead during a gig where he is lit by - yes wait for it - magenta (!) lighting. What made me chuckle most, though was a member's tag line set in magenta and that roughly translates like this: "Think pink - we Leica-shooters don't see all black" - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 17, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 17, 2006 Time will tell if all our efforts to understand the issues and devise ways to make this camera work better will end well. The ball is in Leica's court now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted November 17, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 17, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry to hear that they are bickering instead of trying to go forward.Personally i think we are doing a good job of getting these things to work. there has been many folks involved on many levels. I say keep going forward it will hopefully all work out than we can really go party I am with you, Guy. Though I've been very loud venting my frustration and disappointment at the filter solution, now that I've realized that the qualities of the M8 outnumber its defects by far, and kept my order, I think we should help Leica go through this nightmare the best we can. I do want Leica and the M8 to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 17, 2006 I agree with both you and Marc, Oliver. We are doing our part to get it working but the ball is in leica's court. We are all frustrated to a degree no question and we should not have to deal with this . About the only real issues normally is just getting your workflow down and maybe tweaking your raw processor profiles. We have taken on a whole league of issues. i am glad you kept your order , this camera certainly has more good than bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy Posted November 17, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 17, 2006 @Guy Sorry to say, because I am german, but this bickering and sarcasm stuff is a typical german behaviour of my generation. Instead of going forward and trying to solve the problems people are getting frustrated and larmoyant. The four weeks of the soccer chamionship this summer were a surprisingly exception. RGDS Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted November 17, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 17, 2006 The german customer expects solutions instead of unravel a mystery for the developers. Maybe that´s why sarcasm and frustration came up. When i buy a car with bugs, i don´t start to work on the car, i give it back to the dealer. We should all wait what Leica has to tell us in the near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 17, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 17, 2006 The german customer expects solutions instead of unravel a mystery for the developers. Maybe that´s why sarcasm and frustration came up. When i buy a car with bugs, i don´t start to work on the car, i give it back to the dealer. Seems you are not driving a Mercedes sorry, had to say it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 17, 2006 Hopefully something will happen to make us all happy again, than we will complain about something else. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted November 17, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 17, 2006 Hi guys, I am a German M8 user. More frustrated with the forum – or better some posters – than with my M8. I am indeed a bit disappointed about the IR and banding issues. Besides those issues, which have to be solved by Leica soon – and I bet the will do everything to solve those issues – I like the overall performance and handling of the camera. Never the less a combination of IR-Filters and 6-bit coded lenses would not be an acceptable solution for me. I do no fashion shots and therefore I would rather have a software solution and colours ‘slightly’ off as 1st step and maybe an IR-cut filter if colours really count. Banding really matters to me as I do much available light. I pre-ordered my camera and didn’t expect the camera to be absolutely flaw less (maybe because of my former background as a product development manager in the telco industry). I believe that it is necessary to communicate with Leica about the issues, which I do since two weeks. Every time I send an Email or call them I get an immediate reply from Solms. By the end of next week quite a bunch of active Leica-Forum users will be in Wetzlar to visit an official event and will address the issues face to face with Leica people In the mean time I try to avoid banding and/or take a couple of extra shots to select the best one. From this international section of the forum I learned who minimize the magenta overcast with C1 and PS CS2, which will be fine for this and next week. Best regards, Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Arias Posted November 17, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 17, 2006 Andy describes exactly the situation in the German forum. There are almost no proliferous efforts in handling the actual problems of the M8. Sadly we don't have a German Guy Mancuso here. (Guy, you're doing an admirable job for us all!) H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted November 17, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 17, 2006 Sadly we don't have a German Guy Mancuso here. (Guy, you're doing an admirable job for us all!)H. Herbert, LEICA should do the admirable job - we have to pay and use the camera! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted November 17, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 17, 2006 Thanks Herbert i do appreciate that very much but Ronald is right I should not have to . Leica should, we are all frustrated and totally understandable but it is a design flaw and they thought it would be fine but turns out it is not. Now the question remains if they put a heavier IR glass on and reduce our corner to corner sharpness and open us up to more lens aberations do we want that. There is going to be a trade off here somewhere along these lines because the Low IR filter was there for a reason on the inside. Do we fix it or just add the external filterr and maintain the quality of the file. Hmmm BIG looming question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted November 17, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 17, 2006 The german customer expects solutions instead of unravel a mystery for the developers. Maybe that´s why sarcasm and frustration came up. When i buy a car with bugs, i don´t start to work on the car, i give it back to the dealer. We should all wait what Leica has to tell us in the near future. That's why Germany lost the last war. Instead of fixing their Tiger and Panther tanks in the field like we did with the Shermans they put them on trains and shipped them all back to the factory. Problem was the factory was gone when the trains arrived... Yankee ingenuity! Hopefully the Leica factory will still be there in a few weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted November 17, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 17, 2006 Thanks Herbert i do appreciate that very much but Ronald is right I should not have to . Leica should, we are all frustrated and totally understandable but it is a design flaw and they thought it would be fine but turns out it is not. Now the question remains if they put a heavier IR glass on and reduce our corner to corner sharpness and open us up to more lens aberations do we want that. There is going to be a trade off here somewhere along these lines because the Low IR filter was there for a reason on the inside. Do we fix it or just add the external filterr and maintain the quality of the file. Hmmm BIG looming question You keep making this assumption based on in-field tests with no engineering input from Leica, Guy. You CAN'T say it's a design flaw. You can say there is an obvious problem, but until you compare a bill of materials, schematics, firmware and such to actual production hardware then you CAN'T say it's a design error. You get a prototype from Leica, you try it, tell me if the prototype pre-production unit exhibits the same issues, THEN you can say it is a design flaw. Until then all you have is your units that exhibit the problem, not ALL units. You are fixing, with your filters and settings, the end result. You haven't proved WHY the issue occurs, you just think you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted November 17, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 17, 2006 When i buy a car with bugs, i don´t start to work on the car, i give it back to the dealer.. That pretty much sums it up, Ronald ... good one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted November 17, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 17, 2006 Or purchase the D3 accordingly. at least that one doesn't have flaws Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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