Eoin Posted August 23, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps, but the M8.2 is a lot more expensive (€1000) than the M8 was back in Nov 06, and about €2000 more expensive than a new M8 is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Hi Eoin, Take a look here Why does that cost so much?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StS Posted August 23, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 23, 2009 This is a discussion which will make no one wiser. Several friends ride motorcycles. Although this hobby takes more effort compared to taking photos with a Leica, this effort is never questioned for some reasons. Once, I asked a friend, how it happened he owns three motorcycles. He responded with the question why I use several lenses to take photos. Touché... Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc yyy Posted August 23, 2009 Share #23 Posted August 23, 2009 Hello folks,... when I had the M8 out, I was asked how much it was worth by a guest wearing a very chunky Breitling watch thingey. so, did you, in turn, ask the chunky watch thingy guy how much his watch thingy was worth? and, upon hearing his response, followed-up with "Why does it cost so much?". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted August 23, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 23, 2009 I suppose you have to look at things in context. The M8.2 in the UK (with our absurd non-Euro currency) costs for example £3899 (around €4491). IF the M9 comes in for €5000 AND it's full frame and with at least useable 24000 ISO, then it's going to be in the same league as a Canon 1Ds3 price wise (£4488 / €5169 - best discounted price I've come across on a quick search), but will be doing a different job. YES - it will be more expensive than a 5Dmk2, but I'm delighted that there's an affordable DSLR out there that lets me do some of the things that I need to do, but that there's also (APPARENTLY) going to be a Leica M that lets me use my lenses as they were designed to be used, performs competitively at high ISO (and I trust at low ISO!), and will suit my purposes that bit better than the M8 has done. Let me be clear - I have been happier with the M8 than I have been with any of the digital camera's I've ever owned. I've been willing to accept its limitations for the sake of what it's let me do. I also accept that this hypothetical M9 isn't going to make me a better or happier person, husband, teacher, father or photographer. But it will let my 28 cron asph behave like a proper wide angle lens. That I'll pay a bit of money for. Expensive? Yes. Would I like it to cost less? Yes. Will I get one? Yes. Should Leica keep the M8.2 going alongside the M9 for at least three or four years (with better high ISO) so that there's an entry point for those who can't make the commitment to the full frame version? Yes. That way getting a Leica M doesn't have to be TOO expensive for all buyers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpstjp Posted August 24, 2009 Share #25 Posted August 24, 2009 Should Leica keep the M8.2 going alongside the M9 for at least three or four years (with better high ISO) so that there's an entry point for those who can't make the commitment to the full frame version? Yes. That way getting a Leica M doesn't have to be TOO expensive for all buyers... I suspect the M8.2 would go sooner than that. The second hand price fall for the M8.2 would create too big a differential between recent second hand and new to think that sales would continue at any economic pace for that long. It would be like continuing to make an old VW Golf model alongside a new one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey Posted August 27, 2009 Share #26 Posted August 27, 2009 Craig do you use a Leica M8 for all your Weddings, ? Or is it s combo of DSLR and Leica when the mood takes. Sorry to ask on the forum but I liked your images on the site and wondered if it was Leica or DSLR. thanks in advance, T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehouseflogger Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share #27 Posted August 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Craig do you use a Leica M8 for all your Weddings, ? Or is it s combo of DSLR and Leica when the mood takes. Sorry to ask on the forum but I liked your images on the site and wondered if it was Leica or DSLR. thanks in advance, T I use a mixture of M8 and Canon, when the light gets low I am Canoning, or when I just must nail the picture as there is no second chance. Thank you about your kind comments about my work. Best wishes Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted August 27, 2009 Share #28 Posted August 27, 2009 It would be like continuing to make an old VW Golf model alongside a new one. Isn't it more like having a Polo alongside the Golf (with a Touran up there for the larger family...)? Neither effects the other's sales, but each builds brand-loyalty and allows people to move up or down the cost / size gradient while still buying VW. I would have thought that a lower spec (cropped factor / IR filter needed) camera at a competitive price point would be a great way for Leica to bring people into the brand. But I'm only an academic / photographer - not a marketing specialist, so I'm happy to be proved wrong... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehouseflogger Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share #29 Posted August 27, 2009 so, did you, in turn, ask the chunky watch thingy guy how much his watch thingy was worth? and, upon hearing his response, followed-up with "Why does it cost so much?". Here is the chunky Breitling watch thingey (it got lost in the crash ether) PS Lousy picture, but large watch. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/94239-why-does-that-cost-so-much/?do=findComment&comment=1006219'>More sharing options...
zimboom Posted August 27, 2009 Share #30 Posted August 27, 2009 I don’t know but; Nikon D3X $8000 US, Canon EOS-1Ds MK III 6500 US, with no lens? And the end result is far more charming with the Leica lens and camera systems! Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted August 27, 2009 Share #31 Posted August 27, 2009 Isn't it more like having a Polo alongside the Golf (with a Touran up there for the larger family...)? Neither effects the other's sales, but each builds brand-loyalty and allows people to move up or down the cost / size gradient while still buying VW. That's not quite true. Lets say, if you want to buy a car, the only two available were Polo and Golf. (analogy to if you want a Leica rangefinder, there is one "cheap" and one expensive) One could expect that total sales will be higher than if only the Golf were available, since the ones who can affort a Polo but not a Golf would buy a car. However, one can also expect that some of those who would buy a Golf if it was the only available car, will buy the cheaper Polo instead, since the Polo does the job they need it for. So, the bottom line is that the Polo will effect the Golf sales numbers . The question is, how many of those who would buy the Golf if it were the only available will switch to the Polo? Being a cheaper car, the Polo will presumable leave the manufacturer with lower margins per car compared to the Golf. The manufacturer thus have to sell more cars in total to compensate for the lost profit of canibalising om the Golf sales. But I am sure that Leicas market department have performet a lot of calculations on this subject Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DES Posted August 27, 2009 Share #32 Posted August 27, 2009 Come on guys (&u Nicoleica)...I cant believe all this messing about. The answer is so easy. Because it is the best and the best costs money!...Easy. That is more than can be said about the Breitling as good as they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
footnoteblog Posted August 27, 2009 Share #33 Posted August 27, 2009 I thought you Brits were more polite than to ask how much something's worth? Isn't the broader issue here politeness protocol, and not Leica photographer's insecurity about spendy photo gear? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_E_Darling Posted August 27, 2009 Share #34 Posted August 27, 2009 It was a strange question from someone who has purchased a Brietling watch, having said that I have seen numerous fake Brietling watches. Some of which were very good fakes.The one thing I have never seen though is a fake M8. OK to continue the vulgarity, as a person who has more Breitlings than I have Leicas. I have patronised these two brands because they provide goods that meet my wishes for products of that type. To replace my Leica plus lens would be from 3000 to 10000 euros depending on the lens+body set. To replace the Breitlings would be between 2000 and 7000 euros each. So we are in the same ballpark. The watch and the camera are worth what they are worth to a potential owner. But the Leica owner may or may not value the watch equally to his camera and conversely. The Breitling owner concerned in that story was one of those who do not yet appreciate why we choose Leica.. But some of us appreciate both ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 28, 2009 Share #35 Posted August 28, 2009 I just paid $30.00 for a leica lens cap. Why?????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 28, 2009 Share #36 Posted August 28, 2009 I just paid $30.00 for a leica lens cap. Why?????? Because they probably only make a few hundred of these things per year (for each lens) and the injection mould costs about 10.000 euro. Some lens hoods are "double curvature" and cannot be ejected from a mould in one piece so you need two moulds and assemble (by hand) later: for instance for the cron 28/2 ASPH lens hood, which costs 100 euro. Also the packaging is expensive (aluminum, glossy, several colors printing). That's why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 28, 2009 Share #37 Posted August 28, 2009 Because they probably only make a few hundred of these things per year (for each lens) and the injection mould costs about 10.000 euro. Some lens hoods are "double curvature" and cannot be ejected from a mould in one piece so you need two moulds and assemble (by hand) later: for instance for the cron 28/2 ASPH lens hood, which costs 100 euro. Also the packaging is expensive (aluminum, glossy, several colors printing). That's why. Why would they not get this type of item made by subcontracting to Taiwan where tooling is cheaper, and maybe use standard silver boxes with labels.......it is probably offensive to suggest this, but surely this would be an option for a none critical performance item if cost is a concern at Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 28, 2009 Share #38 Posted August 28, 2009 Why would they not get this type of item made by subcontracting to Taiwan where tooling is cheaper, and maybe use standard silver boxes with labels.......it is probably offensive to suggest this, but surely this would be an option for a none critical performance item if cost is a concern at Leica.High price and high quality is a major unique selling point for Leica. Cost is not a major concern for these items and moreover would hardly reduce even if outsourced to low wage countries. The guiding principle is: "you need one you buy one". I bought a filter today for the summicron, did I need one? No! The old filter still worked fine but it had got damaged (only the ring not the glass) but it was purely cosmetic. Considering all the other costs & the fact that it was covered by insurance I decided to get a new one anyhow. I could have just kept the money. I guess the message is that most people that buy Leica's I expect do not worry too much about the cost, Leica know this and act accordingly by not even trying to cut corners. Or maybe they do but at least they don't tell us which makes sense. A fool and his/her money are easily parted. Do I feel like a fool? No, emphatically not so Leica knows what they are doing, at least for all customers roughly like me. (again) I am amazed that you have not figured this Leica specific business model out yourself & insist on bothering us with repetetive posts that do not add any additional insight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted August 28, 2009 Share #39 Posted August 28, 2009 Why would they not get this type of item made by subcontracting to Taiwan where tooling is cheaper, and maybe use standard silver boxes with labels.......it is probably offensive to suggest this, but surely this would be an option for a none critical performance item if cost is a concern at Leica. I can't think why the idea of buying-in should be offensive. Leica Camera certainly does just that today, witness the country of origin declaration that accompanies the free IR filters. But irrespective of how cheaply some far-distant maker can deliver the items, the company is not going to start charging pennies/cents instead of pounds/euros/dollars or whatever. Leica equipment, like Breitling watches and much else, has to have a price that matches the image created either by the maker, its advertising agency, or the end-buyers themselves. What is perceived to be the best must be at the top of the price table, irrespective of how cheaply it is actually made. Although I understand this, and can accept it cheerfully enough for the cameras and lenses, it does make my eyes water when i'm asked £80-odd for a filter that is bought-in cheaply from a contractor. There is nothing hi-tec about filters, lens caps or carrying straps and Leica prices for them are, in absolute terms, utterly outrageous. But relative to the company's whole product range and marketing policies those prices are inevitable. When I bought my M8 this year I asked the nice gentleman in the shop why the black leather case was £170-odd. He grinned and said 'Ah, the case is actually £70 but they charge £100 for putting the name stamp on it'. Yes, I'll accept that explanation. You makes your choice and pays your money ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 28, 2009 Share #40 Posted August 28, 2009 I just paid $30.00 for a leica lens cap. Why??????Because you chose not to buy a no-brand one at 5$?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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