yanidel Posted August 4, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sometime I really wonder... I've even read a few times that the M8.2 has better quality output than the M8. It's fascinating how people will struggle desperately to find 'class differences' between objects (or other people). Anyone else think the M8.2 is "entirely different"? I tested side-by-side, and felt the difference in the shutter was negligible. And of course, the M8.2 is less flexible for a Noctilux and Summilux 21 shooter. I did test both. Is the shutter sound different ? Yes, but you still hear it if there is no noise around. The delayed shutter also helped the M8. Would it influence the pictures I take ? No. And I would hate to lose my dear 1/8000th speed. But what is the obsession about the shutter noise ? Go unnoticed I suppose. Good argument for concerts or meeting room shoots. But for street ? Go unnoticed is important before you take the pictures. Once it is taken, it is in the box ... what comes behind is your ability to deal with people's reaction. If you don't have it or don't want to deal with it, at least don't blame the camera for making noise. 95% of the time I get spotted, it is not because of the shutter noise, it is because I know I am going to be spotted at some point, but the picture that comes just before that moment is worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Hi yanidel, Take a look here M8 Price Drops. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
plasticman Posted August 4, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 4, 2009 I did test both. Is the shutter sound different ? Yes, but you still hear it if there is no noise around. The delayed shutter also helped the M8. Would it influence the pictures I take ? No. And I would hate to lose my dear 1/8000th speed. But what is the obsession about the shutter noise ? I totally agree. So many times now I'm reading that the M8.2 is vastly superior to the M8. To me it's just that people are always desperate to find something to be snobbish about. As far as I'm concerned, losing 1/8000th makes the M8.2 a vastly inferior machine for actual picture-taking. But that is just my opinion, and because I love shooting fast 50s in bright sunlight. Other people may feel otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted August 4, 2009 Share #23 Posted August 4, 2009 Why shouldn't Leica keep the M8.2 as entry level M-camera very much like C and N who are still selling crop cameras? Nice entry level at 5.000 Euros! Add a Summilux or two and a Noctilux and you might as well consider an S2 as backup... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 4, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 4, 2009 This very much depends on the price level of any M9. Why shouldn't Leica keep the M8.2 as entry level M-camera very much like C and N who are still selling crop cameras? Steve I think they will do it (IF the M9 arrives AND has 24x36) : won't be a "cheap" entry level... , but probably they have the room to maneuver for keeping a street price about 60-65% of the M9 pricing, which, given the absolute values, is not few money. Of course would M9 be more like a M8.3 , with same sensor size, some more MP, better high ISO etc... (as someone has speculated) things will be different, much closer to the M8 to M8.2 transition (and with some M8.2 special like "white edition"... ). In any case, used M8 prices will drop : they can stabilize at a level that depends on the success of "M9" : if it will be succesful, a used M8 (or M8.2... I agree there isn't so much difference in practical use) can be seen like an interesting approach to digital RF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 4, 2009 Share #25 Posted August 4, 2009 There's certainly a case for updating the M8.2 to M8.3 by replacing the existing sensor and generic electronics with a new (still cropped) sensor and custom Maestro derived electronics; imagine the M8.2 as it is now with a lower noise, good-for-higher ISO sensor and improved speed and handling. Just the thing to complement the M8 to M8.2 upgrade especially if the price can be reduced to provide that much needed entry level model. I think the M9 should advance the M8.2 beyond simply providing a new FF sensor and electronics - a new top panel display derived from the S2 OLED display, my favourite hobby horse of an improved viewfinder, higher resolution LCD, who knows what else. And I didn't even mention live-view... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted August 4, 2009 Share #26 Posted August 4, 2009 I've seen used M8s on ebay going for less than $2,000. If an M9 comes to the market the M8 will be lucky to sell for $1,500 and the M8.2 for under $2,500. Excellent! I hope your right cause when they reach $1500 I'm picking up another one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 4, 2009 Share #27 Posted August 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) There's certainly a case for updating the M8.2 to M8.3 by replacing the existing sensor and generic electronics with a new (still cropped) sensor and custom Maestro derived electronics; imagine the M8.2 as it is now with a lower noise, good-for-higher ISO sensor and improved speed and handling. Just the thing to complement the M8 to M8.2 upgrade especially if the price can be reduced to provide that much needed entry level model. I think the M9 should advance the M8.2 beyond simply providing a new FF sensor and electronics - a new top panel display derived from the S2 OLED display, my favourite hobby horse of an improved viewfinder, higher resolution LCD, who knows what else. And I didn't even mention live-view... M8: ........... I would love them to continue with the M8 as the entry level model at an entry level price. M8.2 /M8.3:Then for those that need it the M8.2 and/or M8.3 at a higher price, M9:............ with improved sensor for those that really need it and full frame perhaps M10 ...........with full frame and display...sounds great Frankly I believe that I would stay with the M8 if that line up was available. If I had a bonus at Christmas and I was in an impulsive mood I might go for an M10, but the attraction to gt some new lenses would probably be as strong. I guess I am trying to think "what in photographic terms " can I NOT do adequately with the M8 ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted August 4, 2009 Share #28 Posted August 4, 2009 There's certainly a case for updating the M8.2 to M8.3 by replacing the existing sensor and generic electronics with a new (still cropped) sensor and custom Maestro derived electronics; imagine the M8.2 as it is now with a lower noise, good-for-higher ISO sensor and improved speed and handling. Just the thing to complement the M8 to M8.2 upgrade especially if the price can be reduced to provide that much needed entry level model. I think the M9 should advance the M8.2 beyond simply providing a new FF sensor and electronics - a new top panel display derived from the S2 OLED display, my favourite hobby horse of an improved viewfinder, higher resolution LCD, who knows what else. And I didn't even mention live-view... Actually, apart from the transfer of technology from the S2 to a 13.5 MPix M8.3 and a 24 MPix M9, one thing that I would like to see (which hasn't been mentioned for a long while) is a significant structural improvement to elliminate base plate failure. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/25121-base-plate-failure.html Regards Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 4, 2009 Share #29 Posted August 4, 2009 We haven't heard about that one for quite some while, now that you mention it. Was it a small run of bodies with some casting anomaly?. I agree, though. It should not be too hard to make a M3-style hinge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted August 4, 2009 Share #30 Posted August 4, 2009 There's certainly a case for updating the M8.2 to M8.3 by replacing the existing sensor and generic electronics with a new (still cropped) sensor and custom Maestro derived electronics; imagine the M8.2 as it is now with a lower noise, good-for-higher ISO sensor and improved speed and handling. Just the thing to complement the M8 to M8.2 upgrade especially if the price can be reduced to provide that much needed entry level model. I think the M9 should advance the M8.2 beyond simply providing a new FF sensor and electronics - a new top panel display derived from the S2 OLED display, my favourite hobby horse of an improved viewfinder, higher resolution LCD, who knows what else. And I didn't even mention live-view... I very much agree to your words. If Leica really gets over the technical problems to provide a FF sensor in a M system I hope they do not shed the chance to split their cash cow in a crop and FF system. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted August 4, 2009 Share #31 Posted August 4, 2009 Steve, You said it. personally I think that keeping the M8 will be the cleanest way of providing a "entry level" M camera, rather than making a cheap M camera, aside from the brief CL adventure, Leica have really never made multiple levels of M cameras, but always their best. Keeping the 8 around for a while seems like a clean way to support this policy. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share #32 Posted August 4, 2009 Keeping the M8 around will also keep the value of a used M8 up. If they do drop down to $1500.00 (which I doubt) I would probably get a second body. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 4, 2009 Share #33 Posted August 4, 2009 One (co?)incidental effect of the imminent release of the S2 is that the M8 and all its variants suddenly seems less extravagant. Previously the M8 crowd had the most expensive Leica, now we are demoted to 'not quite there yet' The M8 is so 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted August 4, 2009 Share #34 Posted August 4, 2009 One (co?)incidental effect of the imminent release of the S2 is that the M8 and all its variants suddenly seems less extravagant. Previously the M8 crowd had the most expensive Leica, now we are demoted to 'not quite there yet' The M8 is so 2008 That's so true! Over on the S2 forum I suddenly realized I'm a camera pauper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted August 4, 2009 Share #35 Posted August 4, 2009 "Entry level" and "Leica" do not always work well together in the same paragraph, much less the same sentence. More seriously, although there are exceptions, my impression (watching Leica prices for more than 35 years) is that the introduction of new models (1) is usually a higher prices than existing models and (2) tends to pull the price of used models UP rather than down. Whether that is still true for digital cameras where the camera and "film" (sensor) are unitary rather than separate remains to be seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 4, 2009 Share #36 Posted August 4, 2009 That's so true! Over on the S2 forum I suddenly realized I'm a camera pauper! We are all doomed, but somehow I find this new situation to be a consolation. The S2 is for the extravagant - I am completely normal:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgay Posted August 4, 2009 Share #37 Posted August 4, 2009 I gave up waiting for Leica to add an M8 video mode, so I bought a Panasonic HVX-170 which has, would you Knievel it, a Leica lens with autofocus! And did I mention the video mode? And it only cost the same as a new M8.2! But then, I guess I never expected, nor wanted, my M8 to do everything. The M8 is a box. Think outside it. Regards , Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted August 4, 2009 Share #38 Posted August 4, 2009 While the 2.hand sales of M8 increased - drastically - up until summer holiday with steadily falling prices, it is not longer possible to buy a 2.hand M8s here in Norway, - nor new ones, right now. The reason for falling prices has been, I think, doubtful M8 users doubting that Leica would have the strength to follow up the M8 with a new model. Now, that such a model is imminent, I reckon that prices will stabilize or even rise a little. For a nice example it should be possible to get 1/2 of new price. That is hardly possible for most Canon DSLR models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share #39 Posted August 5, 2009 One (co?)incidental effect of the imminent release of the S2 is that the M8 and all its variants suddenly seems less extravagant. Previously the M8 crowd had the most expensive Leica, now we are demoted to 'not quite there yet' The M8 is so 2008 That may be the case but there doesn't seem to be any real enthusiasm for the S2. The staggering price feels like a cold wet soggy noodle. Mystery pre-orders have been placed but no notable sense of awe has emerged from the folks who frequent this forum, nobody here is rushing to buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 5, 2009 Share #40 Posted August 5, 2009 Wilfredo, the only problem with your logic is that when you buy the $1,500 M8 and it suffers a failure you really bought a $3,000 M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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