ArtZ Posted August 3, 2009 Share #41 Posted August 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) And looking at the images again, I can't help thinking that there's a little nick in both images, in the blade above this one (and slightly offset - not sure how the blades travel?) I've noticed also this "little nick" (I prefer to call it tear) on the upper blade of both cameras at the same place. It looks like if the damage is done from the left to the right. In both pictures, on the broken part, we can see clearly on the left side there is a neat cut, almost perpendicular, producing a tear towards the right side. Besides, in Marco's camera, it looks like if there's also another tear on the upper left corner (or maybe it's just the picture). The only thing I can think of is vibration on the blades. Vibrations can make the different blades touching each other on the borders which will damage them. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/92287-m8-damaged-shutter-how-could-this-happen/?do=findComment&comment=981507'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Hi ArtZ, Take a look here M8 damaged shutter: how could this happen?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 3, 2009 Share #42 Posted August 3, 2009 Yes - but was this damage cause by the torn blade at a later exposure? Who knows... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 3, 2009 Share #43 Posted August 3, 2009 I'm sorry to hear about problems such as this and can appreciate how frustrating they can be. I too am a heat theory doubter - I just can't see this happening (although I have always adopted the lens cap on when not being used approach that I used on film Ms to avoid shutter damage. Having thought about this I'd suggest the following scenario. Since the camera is subject to gravity (!) any particle of foreign matter will inevitably drop to the bottom of the shutter - looking into the camera it might well be out of sight in the area bellow the shutter and behind the metal plate in front of the shutter. If you watch the shutter recock you will see the second (damaged) 'curtain' travels upwards as it does so - the damage I would say was caused at this point as the shutter blades collided with the foreign object and the worst damaged one took the brunt of the force. To me it makes sense that foreign particle may well potentially sit in the same place in the bottom of the shutter mechanism/area, might well be bounced around in a similar fashion as the shutter recocks and so might cause similar damage in different cameras. I would guess that a small hard jagged particle would be quite capable of causing such damage. As to the question of where the particle came from, well that is probably going to remain an open question (unless its still there at the bottom of the shutter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted August 3, 2009 Share #44 Posted August 3, 2009 I've noticed also this "little nick" (I prefer to call it tear) on the upper blade of both cameras at the same place. It looks like if the damage is done from the left to the right. In both pictures, on the broken part, we can see clearly on the left side there is a neat cut, almost perpendicular, producing a tear towards the right side. Besides, in Marco's camera, it looks like if there's also another tear on the upper left corner (or maybe it's just the picture). The only thing I can think of is vibration on the blades. Vibrations can make the different blades touching each other on the borders which will damage them. There is also a spot just below the white strip. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/92287-m8-damaged-shutter-how-could-this-happen/?do=findComment&comment=981559'>More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted August 3, 2009 Share #45 Posted August 3, 2009 There is also a spot just below the white strip. [ATTACH]155065[/ATTACH] Yes, Ed, that's exactly was I was saying to Plasticman. You can see this "spot" (Plasticman called it "little nick" in a precedent post) on both cameras. Besides, you can see on Marco's camera the one I circled in red. Mauricio had also recently a problem with the shutter... and I don't know what was the problem with mine. I really would like to understand better this issue... especially when an independent Leica repair shop says it's due to heat... "from the sun shining for some time into the lens". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted August 3, 2009 Share #46 Posted August 3, 2009 Standing in cue to have my 1Ds II cleaned at the Canon Service here in Oslo, I recognised quite many cueing up for having their shutters repaired. The guy behind the counter told me, excusingly, that Canon shutters were better than before, but cleaning sensors by using 'B' caused many to cut scars in the shutter curtains with schabs and dust blowers. When seeing the pictures of these curtains with scars; isn't this mechanical destruction due to shutters closing before cleaning tools are removed...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fursan Posted August 3, 2009 Share #47 Posted August 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Marco, I am sorry that the shutter has gone 'kaput'. But leica will stand by you and do the necessary..fast. They did it for me.. That was about a year ago... the bright side, I got a brand new modified shutter for free.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 3, 2009 Share #48 Posted August 3, 2009 In the top of the photograph I see damage on the edge of one shutterblade too. It seems in exactly the same spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 3, 2009 Share #49 Posted August 3, 2009 In the top of the photograph I see damage on the edge of one shutterblade too. It seems in exactly the same spot. Given the fact, or more precisely, the observation that all three shutters from Marco, Robert and Fursan have the same location of a mark on the upper blade and a bigger fracture on the lower blade in those of Marco and Robert, makes one a bit skeptical of the remark of the repairman that it "must" be a sunburn. Besides, Camtech is the official repairpoint of Leica in the Netherlands, and can therefore not really be called independent. Boen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted August 3, 2009 Share #50 Posted August 3, 2009 Given the fact, or more precisely, the observation that all three shutters from Marco, Robert and Fursan have the same location of a mark on the upper blade and a bigger fracture on the lower blade, makes one a bit skeptical of the remark of the repairman that it "must" be a sunburn. Exactly - and this also means it can't be user error - that is, a sensor cleaning accident - because it's impossible that all three of these accidents would happen when the user had the cleaning swab in exactly the same position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelc Posted August 3, 2009 Share #51 Posted August 3, 2009 Given the fact, or more precisely, the observation that all three shutters from Marco, Robert and Fursan have the same location of a mark on the upper blade and a bigger fracture on the lower blade in those of Marco and Robert, makes one a bit skeptical of the remark of the repairman that it "must" be a sunburn. Besides, Camtech is the official repairpoint of Leica in the Netherlands, and can therefore not really be called independent. Boen ,,,yes and as noted below mine had the same dent in what i remember to be the same location...though i don't have the camera any more so i can't show a pic of it....i just think it came that way and i just didn't notice it at first....when i traded it up for the m82 to dalephoto david farcas asked me if i had damaged it by using a collapseable lens on the camera...but i don't have any such lenses and i can't imagine heat or sun damage since it looked like a dent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share #52 Posted August 3, 2009 When seeing the pictures of these curtains with scars; isn't this mechanical destruction due to shutters closing before cleaning tools are removed...? With all due respect, but don't you think I'd notice that happening? I even talked with the guy from Camtech about what would happen if you let the shutter flip over your brush/arctic dust/whatever . He just smiled and then told me that the damage would be extensive, like "all wrapped up shutters". He'd seen that once. And do you really think I'd start a thread about this if I'd done such a perfectly stupid thing? Come on, I've to much respect for my fellow forum members. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share #53 Posted August 3, 2009 ,,,yes and as noted below mine had the same dent in what i remember to be the same location...though i don't have the camera any more so i can't show a pic of it....i just think it came that way and i just didn't notice it at first....when i traded it up for the m82 to dalephoto david farcas asked me if i had damaged it by using a collapseable lens on the camera...but i don't have any such lenses and i can't imagine heat or sun damage since it looked like a dent I'm really glad with more people having had this experience, as I'm sure that there will be a discussion about who's going to pay (not me!). BTW: I checked and double checked my lenses before using them on the M8, but it sure can rip your camera up if you use a wrong one! - Leica 50mm 1.4 asph (OK) - CV35 2.5 (OK) - CV15 (OK) - Zeiss 28 2.8 Biogon T (OK) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 4, 2009 Share #54 Posted August 4, 2009 With all due respect, but don't you think I'd notice that happening? Probably Olsen is giving you some ammo when some novice salesman is trying to put the blame into your shoes. Arguments are better than the typical "yes-no". Boen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 4, 2009 Share #55 Posted August 4, 2009 I do remember reading an article once in Cameramagazine (a dutch photo magazine) probably in the late 80's-beginning 90's where the authors put a camera to all sorts of severe tests, for example freezing at -50 C, in an oven of >60 (?), or in a corner where they also uses sand blasting machines. Another test was a lot of continuous shutter firing They tested an Olympus OM-4ti. During the last test a small fracture in the blades was seen, and further testing ended up with a totally devastated shutter described by Marco. Ah, those days of rigorously testing by real journalists... Boen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share #56 Posted August 5, 2009 Probably Olsen is giving you some ammo when some novice salesman is trying to put the blame into your shoes. Arguments are better than the typical "yes-no". Boen Euhmm ... of course. Wrong mind set on my side. Olsen: I have right mind set now, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share #57 Posted August 5, 2009 I do remember reading an article once in Cameramagazine (a dutch photo magazine) probably in the late 80's-beginning 90's where the authors put a camera to all sorts of severe tests, for example freezing at -50 C, in an oven of >60 (?), or in a corner where they also uses sand blasting machines. Another test was a lot of continuous shutter firingThey tested an Olympus OM-4ti. During the last test a small fracture in the blades was seen, and further testing ended up with a totally devastated shutter described by Marco. Ah, those days of rigorously testing by real journalists... Boen Oh, is that the cause? My wife was already complaining about all the dust and smoke, but I never ... :D Seriously: a warm camera (it was warm in Thionville), accidentally bumping the camera around, a first small fracture and further use resulting in a big rip sounds like a reason. For a € 500,- SLR. It would be totally unacceptable for a € 4000,- Leica. But could indeed have been the cause: than I'll expect a no charge repair. Let's wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 5, 2009 Share #58 Posted August 5, 2009 OM4TI han not blades, but silk curtain, same as Leica but up to 1/2000s g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HetDraakje Posted August 5, 2009 Share #59 Posted August 5, 2009 OM4TI han not blades, but silk curtain, same as Leica but up to 1/2000sg You're probably right. I do not know what camera was used then. I seem to remember that they did tests on the Contax RTSIII, Olympus OM4Ti, and Leica R5. Unfortunately, I threw all old magazines away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share #60 Posted August 10, 2009 So, the final verdict: € 613 excluding tax. No deeper info about what caused it (no surprise there). Thought a little, went for the fast solution (I'm going to Scotland in 2 weeks and want that camera with me) and talked to the insurance company. They will cover the bill, period. Life is good. I'm going to pay € 100 extra iot get my M8 back in 5 working days. Let's see if they can manage that. Thanks for the support! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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