QDIEM4SC Posted July 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm contemplating buying a second M8, because I want to have a back-up body, and I only use two lenses anyway, so they would pretty much stay glued on to each body. I'm looking to do this mostly because I am quite happy with my M8, and for the first time in many years have no desire to upgrade. So, why am I hesitating? I'm concerned about the reliability and durability of the camera. Reports on the 'net and in this forum have been contradictory in this respect. Bottom line: I don't want to purchase a 2nd M8 only to have both my M8s fail within the next 5 yrs, necessitating more purchases. Any thoughts about this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Hi QDIEM4SC, Take a look here A 2nd M8? Trying to decide. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted July 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 21, 2009 Just like any and every thing else, you pay your money and take your chances. Personally I'll be very surprised if my M8's last another 5 years (Yes I have 2 of them). I sincerely hope they do but I have my doubts. Does that mean I should sell them NOW, no not really. I'd just have to buy another because it is the camera I most like to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted July 21, 2009 Share #3 Posted July 21, 2009 Last as long as my M6's--doubt it. But I like using them [both], am happy with the pictures I am able to get, and with prices softening, particularly on demo M8.2's and M8's....Besides, my shooting style has long been two bodies w/ two primes [21 + 35 or 35 + 90 in the film cameras; 15 + 28 or 28 + 75 w/ M8s]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 21, 2009 I have two, my second is just two years old now. I bought it for the same reasons you are thinking about it and it is nice to have a back up if required. Most of the time I take just the one body and three lenses. Using two cameras has it own handling problems. Personally I would just buy a second body when and if the first had to go away for a while. They wont be worth much in 5 years time. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 21, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 21, 2009 Reasoning from a failure point of view it seems that two bodies would be better than one, not the other way around. I see your point that ideally you don't want any failures at all, but since you do like your M8 then you will sorely miss it when it's gone. Of course you could always get another one if and when that actually happens. In terms of convenience, not having to change lenses (often) can be a big plus, although this is probably more personal e.g. depends on your lens usage. I love all my lenses, but I love two of them so much that I want to use them most of the time. What better way than to treat each of them to their own dedicated body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 21, 2009 Maybe wait a few months and see how things develop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEB Posted July 21, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) With all due respect, my personal opinion is that a second, identical camera for "back-up" is not a wise expenditure. Unless you are a professional who needs instant lens change options, you don't need a second body just to hold a second lens...that is why the great powers in Solms made the M cameras use interchangeable lenses. While I believe the M series are perhaps the best street cameras ever developed, there are certain things that they cannot do well (or nearly as well as other cameras). They do not do well under conditions that mandate high ISO (M8) and people who say they do are deluding themselves. They are very difficult to use for high speed events like sports. Try taking pictures of race cars coming around a curve at you with an M8! They are difficult to use in macro (but not impossible and sometimes deliver excellent results) and they are very difficult to use in high telephoto applications like wildlife. Leica no longer offers us the R based system. The S doesn't really exist yet and will be so expensive as to prohibit the vast majority of photogs. Therefore, unless you limit yourself to that type of photography where the M cameras shine, I would get a totally different camera for a second camera...even if it means a different system. In my case, I have a Nikon D3 and numerous lenses. I usually prefer to carry the M8 and a couple of lenses but there are just times where it is a relief to have the Nikon available. The Leica M camera is a tool, not a cult. I always believe a craftsman should have a variety of good tools and be competent in their use. Mark B (East Lansing, Michigan) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted July 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 21, 2009 I'm contemplating a third, so that may let you know how I feel about the issue. I'm a working pro, and right now I shoot with two M8 bodies but my backup system is Nikon, which I never use. So I do believe that if one of my M8's does go down, I will be sacrificing quality (if for no other reason than I'm much more comfortable with the M cameras than the SLRs). You may want to wait to see what comes out in the coming months or years. If you have it in your budget to afford an M9 should it come out, I might say to wait. But if you couldn't afford one (or wouldn't want to be an early adopter in case of problems) then by all means get a deal on a demo M8 with a warranty now. Obviously for a pro backups are necessary. But if you're an amateur and shoot for pleasure, and not having to change lenses would make your shooting more fun, then by all means go for it. I think it's wiser than buying more lenses since you seem happy with the glass you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted July 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 21, 2009 I just went through the same decision making process as you are now and decided against purchasing another M8 body. My reasons were that I have not had any problems so far with my current M8 and unlike some of the posters here fully expect my M8 to be around and working well beyond five years given I perform proper maintenance on it. Secondly I decided to use a Panasonic LX3 as a back up because it is small, light and has excellent image quality (some images from it I like better than my M8) and covers all the focal lengths I use. It fits in the same case I use for my M8 gear and with a second M8 body I would have to get another bag for all of it. Sitting around and waiting for whatever may be coming from Leica to me is not a reason. Of course something new will eventually come from Leica but to assume it is an M8 replacement is a bit premature as Leica have declared the M8 an upgradable not replaceable camera. I would rather put the money towards an optic or a trip somewhere so I can use my current M8 more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 21, 2009 They do not do well under conditions that mandate high ISO (M8) and people who say they do are deluding themselves. They are very difficult to use for high speed events like sports. I agree it is good to consider other types of camera. But from what I have seen here, many who do reject them which is why they came to M in the first place. Not sure I agree with the high ISO and high speed. My M is happy in pretty much all conditions where my Nikon requires high ISO. This is due in part because I set up the shot better - something I have learned with M - and partly because I have access to superior lenses. Most high ISO arguments are academic anyway because with the right PP it matters not a lot in print. Speaking of race cars, this is in fact a good example of lazy DSLR mentality: obsessively focusing on anything that moves while you can instead focus on the curve and shoot anytime. Whenever I try to catch a certain little person moving with the DSLR, out of the 10-burst shot there will perhaps be one in good focus and the rest slightly off or badly composed. And the camera is to blame because everything is auto. With the M I may still have to take 10 shots but the one that nails it is usually better and definitely more satisfying. Sorry went a bit off topic there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDIEM4SC Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted July 22, 2009 Thanks for the thoughtful responses everybody. By way of clarification, I used to use a D3 and I've been surprised to find out the M8 can do everything for me that the D3 could, including "action". I should note that, 95% of the time, I shot with a prime lens on the D3. I have to work harder with the M8, like when photographing toddlers (try getting the eyelashes of a zig-zagging 2 year old in focus at f/1.4 and, by comparison, shooting race cars around a curve seems like a walk in the park). But when I get it right, the M8 results surpass anything I've ever used: Zenfolio | QDIEM 4 S C - Every Day for Solange and Catherine. | Portraits - 2009 and Zenfolio | QDIEM 4 S C - Every Day for Solange and Catherine. | Portraits - 2009 I still haven't decided about the 2nd body. My motivation for looking for a 2nd (demo) body is "insurance". I don't think I'll be able to afford an M9 if and when it comes out, if it's priced at the current M8.2 price or higher of course. The second form of "insurance" is in case a future M9 screws up the crystal-clear image quality I see with the M8 at base ISO. In the Nikon world, I really do feel that the native D3 images at base ISO are softer than what was possible with previous Nikon digital cameras (D2Xs, D2Hs, D70, etc...). The high ISO output is obviously incredibly more advanced, but I wonder if the price to be paid for that is a slight degradation of image quality at base ISO. Anyway, just some thoughts....and once again, thank you all. Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Cheng Posted July 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2009 Peter, What about to wait for the second-generation of Oly E-P1 (2?) assuming it would come with a built-in viewfinder. You can then use all your great Leica or other M mount lenses. I guess it could be a better alternate (instead of 'back-up') than a LX3 or D-Lux-4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDIEM4SC Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted July 22, 2009 Peter, What about to wait for the second-generation of Oly E-P1 (2?) assuming it would come with a built-in viewfinder. You can then use all your great Leica or other M mount lenses. I guess it could be a better alternate (instead of 'back-up') than a LX3 or D-Lux-4. That's a good idea and an idea of contemplated, but I wonder how well any current or future Oly system would "mesh" with the Leica lenses. Another manufacturer is not interested in optimizing their camera system to perform optimally with Leica lenses, but is interested in selling their own lenses. My concern would be that I would have this ideal (and expensive) Leica glass, but my image quality would be no better than the Oly kit lens on the Oly system . In which case, what's the point of having the expensive glass? I may be missing something, and I'm willing to be corrected... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 22, 2009 If you desperately want a second M8 or backup I don't think there is any substitute for the real thing - I'm not sure getting an Olympus is a good idea. What I also wouldn't do is pay full retail price for another M8 at this stage. There are a number of good ex-demo bodies available with full warranty for 2/3 the new retail price (or less in some cases). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pope Posted July 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 22, 2009 If you desperately want a second M8 or backup I don't think there is any substitute for the real thing - I'm not sure getting an Olympus is a good idea. What I also wouldn't do is pay full retail price for another M8 at this stage. There are a number of good ex-demo bodies available with full warranty for 2/3 the new retail price (or less in some cases). This is good advice IMHO. It's exactly what I did when I purchased a second body. I'm not a pro, but having a second body is very convenient when you're out and about. It's also good to know I have a backup in the (unlikely) event that one of the bodies has to go back for repair. Being without an M8 would be bad news for me. I would miss it terribly. Cheers Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Pope Posted July 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 22, 2009 Leica have declared the M8 an upgradable not replaceable camera. Since the Hessenpark dialogue, there's no longer any point clinging to this security blanket. [Just noticed, there are two consecutive 'Pope' posts - a first for the forum!] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 22, 2009 9/9/09 is just around the corner... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Cheng Posted July 22, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 22, 2009 Neither am I sure how an Oly digital Pen performs with Leica glasses. Has anyone here tried? My idea was: since you already have some Leica lenses with your M8, it might be better off getting a Pen (not the current one definitely) and one more great Leica lens! In the case you are not sure about Oly's IQ certainly getting another M8 is the only route to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick.edwards1 Posted July 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 22, 2009 You have a few ways to look at this. If your heart says that you want a second M8, then get one as you have already justified your reasons why - you want a back-up and you can have each of your 2 favorite lenses mounted ready to shoot. Also as Noah has already said - if you are a Pro a back-up is essential. If you follow logic - the M8 is a machine. All machines will fail - engineers measure these things - they know the mean time between failures. In the ideal world they replace machines or components just before the onset of the high risk of failure. Where things are critical, spares are kept on hand ready to change in the instances when the failure occurs unexpectedly, unless of course the cost of the spares significantly outweighs the cost of the failure, in which case they wait for the spares to be delivered or manufactured or the item is repaired. This is all too logical and boring - In conclusion on this scenario - if you are a Pro you need the spare otherwise buy a new M8 when yours fails or get it repaired and be prepared to wait. You say that you have no desire to upgrade (I agree with you) - that may be because there is no M9 - if there were an M9 you may change your mind (I don't think I will as I probably won't be able to afford to - having just retired). So by not having purchased a second M8 your option on the M9 is still open - if you require a justification. Another approach - you could purchase an M film camera as a back-up. This would always be available for back-up no matter what future M digital you had. Something like an M7 or MP would be reliable and be good for 50 years or so - It would also give you the option to have a 'play with film' now and again, and even give you the option of a wider angle lens when that 28 mm is not quite wide enough. I have personally opted for this latter approach and as yet have not needed a backup for my M8 and have enjoyed periodically getting back into film. It has certainly given my photography a bit of a new lease of life. Oh - I forgot to mention - what are you doing about a back up for your lenses!*?/? Best regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDIEM4SC Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted July 23, 2009 You have a few ways to look at this. If your heart says that you want a second M8, then get one as you have already justified your reasons why - you want a back-up and you can have each of your 2 favorite lenses mounted ready to shoot. Thanks Nick. Well, I went with my heart and made the purchase. Oh - I forgot to mention - what are you doing about a back up for your lenses!*?/? Now you're killing me...! (My plan is to hope the lenses keep working) Thanks to everybody again for your input. Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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