Comparison? New 18mm f/3.8 and 15mm CV f/4.5?

[wstotler]

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Hi!

 

I really respect my CV15 and have had it for almost three years. It was my third lens, after a 35mm and 50mm Summicron ASPH.

 

However. . . . I've been eyeing up the new f/3.8 18mm from Leica as a potential significant "upgrade" to the CV15. (I'm passing on the Zeiss Distagon after reading a lot about it--nothing "wrong" with it, but I have my eye on the Leica.)

 

Sean hasn't done a comparison of the 18mm with the 15mm CV yet. . . .

 

If you have both the CV15 and also a new 18mm, can you help me out?

 

(1) Edge Stretching. How is the 18mm's distortion and/or "stretching" of subjects, especially near the edges of the frame? Compared to the CV15. Roughly More? Roughly Less? Roughly the Same? Or. . . . None.

 

(2) Rendition/handling of color. Is this mostly like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons, for example)? It's absolutely subjective--but side-by-side the CVs always seem to be more "burned in" with their colors than the Leicas.

 

(3) Rendering Character. I don't have the technical vocabulary to quantify Leica drawing vs. CV drawing, but fine details are handled very differently with the CV glass. I guess I'm just seeking confirmation that the 18m draws somewhat like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons)--and not like the CVs. I'd expect this to be true, but I'd rather ask.

 

Thanks in advance! The Leica is significant $$$ and comments from people who have both lenses and some real-world experience will be very helpful before I make a final decision.

 

Thanks much!

Will

[franzk]

different focal, different aperure and different price.

You can compare them?

 

Cheers

Francesco

[sean_reid]

Hi!

 

I really respect my CV15 and have had it for almost three years. It was my third lens, after a 35mm and 50mm Summicron ASPH.

 

However. . . . I've been eyeing up the new f/3.8 18mm from Leica as a potential significant "upgrade" to the CV15. (I'm passing on the Zeiss Distagon after reading a lot about it--nothing "wrong" with it, but I have my eye on the Leica.)

 

Sean hasn't done a comparison of the 18mm with the 15mm CV yet. . . .

 

If you have both the CV15 and also a new 18mm, can you help me out?

 

(1) Edge Stretching. How is the 18mm's distortion and/or "stretching" of subjects, especially near the edges of the frame? Compared to the CV15. Roughly More? Roughly Less? Roughly the Same? Or. . . . None.

 

(2) Rendition/handling of color. Is this mostly like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons, for example)? It's absolutely subjective--but side-by-side the CVs always seem to be more "burned in" with their colors than the Leicas.

 

(3) Rendering Character. I don't have the technical vocabulary to quantify Leica drawing vs. CV drawing, but fine details are handled very differently with the CV glass. I'm guess I'm just seeking confirmation that the 18m draws somewhat like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons)--and not like the CVs. I'd expect this to be true, but I'd rather ask.

 

Thanks in advance! The Leica is significant $$$ and comments from people who have both lenses and some real-world experience will be very helpful before I make a final decision.

 

Thanks much!

Will

 

Hi Will,

 

My comparisons run like to like focal lengths. So the Leica 18 will be compared with the Zeiss 18. I haven't tested the Leica 18 yet but my hunch is that it will draw very much like a modern Leica lens (ie: the 24/3.8). But, again, I haven't tried it yet.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wstotler]

different focal, different aperure and different price.

You can compare them?

 

Cheers

Francesco

 

I wasn't asking about focal length, aperture, or price. Nor about build quality.

 

The CV 15 is what I have and what I know.

 

If somebody else has the CV 15 and also a Leica 18 mm, they are in a good place to help me understand how the 18mm will be *in comparison* in terms of image.

 

In other words, how are they, *image-wise*, one compared to the other?

 

I'm not looking for a test or hard data. Just a "hey, I've found X to be true about the images I'm getting from the new 18mm compared to the older CV15."

 

Thanks,

Will

[wstotler]

I haven't tested the Leica 18 yet but my hunch is that it will draw very much like a modern Leica lens (ie: the 24/3.8). But, again, I haven't tried it yet. Cheers, Sean

 

Hey, Sean. Thanks much for the quick reply--and hunch about its drawing. Helpful.

 

Thanks,

Will

[Shootist]

Since the new CV 15 is M mount and RF coupled I'll probably get one of those and skip the 18mm Leica.

Sorry for no comparision. But you can almost guarantee the Leica lens will be better then the CV. How much better compared to the difference in cost, that is up to the users.

 

But wouldn't you really like to have the Leica 18? So just go buy one.

 

EDIT:

Not to nitpick but the 50mm Summicron is not a ASPH lens. You need to buy the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux to get that.

[Don Morley]

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Hi, I have both and other than for the fairly extreme vigneting thought the CV was fantastic until I bought the Leica 18mm. Sorry I can't find any better way of quantiying BUT The 18mm's image quallity, definition, and edge to edge quallity is just stunning, indeed I can hardly believe how good it is.

 

The one downside however is the massive price disparity and innacurate external viewfinder, for though. I do use a genuine Leica 24mm finder (which equates to 18mm on my M8's) I find it hopelessly innacurate, worse in my view in nfact than the nearest equivalent CV finder. Regards Don..

[UliWer]

...I do use a genuine Leica 24mm finder (which equates to 18mm on my M8's) I find it hopelessly innacurate, worse in my view in nfact than the nearest equivalent CV finder. Regards Don..

 

Does this apply to the new Leica viewfinder (18 mm on film and 24 on M8) or different ones?

[sean_reid]

Hi, I have both and other than for the fairly extreme vigneting thought the CV was fantastic until I bought the Leica 18mm. Sorry I can't find any better way of quantiying BUT The 18mm's image quallity, definition, and edge to edge quallity is just stunning, indeed I can hardly believe how good it is.

 

The one downside however is the massive price disparity and innacurate external viewfinder, for though. I do use a genuine Leica 24mm finder (which equates to 18mm on my M8's) I find it hopelessly innacurate, worse in my view in nfact than the nearest equivalent CV finder. Regards Don..

 

Extreme vignetting? Were you using an R-D1? Was the CV coded if using an M8?

 

Cheers,

[Don Morley]

Extreme vigneting on full frame film, less so on M8 Digital, but still noticeable, and my Leica 24mm finder is the current one which should be spot on for 18mm on digital M8, but in my view is not accurate enough. Don:o

[offshore]

If you're going to buy the Leitz 18 now's the time to do it because the rebate ends on the 30th and $200 is $200. Just a heads up B&H sells it for the same price as everyone but they include the filter holder and a Leitz UV/IR. I looked at all three lenses you've mentioned and decided on the Voigtlander because I couldn't see that much difference on a properly coded CV and I already have a 21 VF, 52 mm filters are a lot less expensive than the Leitz 77 mm (or 72?) .

[wstotler]

Hi, I have both and other than for the fairly extreme vigneting thought the CV was fantastic until I bought the Leica 18mm. Sorry I can't find any better way of quantiying BUT The 18mm's image quallity, definition, and edge to edge quallity is just stunning, indeed I can hardly believe how good it is.

 

Shootist--nitpicking is OK. You're right. I fumbled that around when I edited the post. (Ick.) Won't do that again. Regarding this: "So just go buy one." I *so* want to just do that. But I wanted to ask into the community first to get a sense from owners of both how they compared and what to expect.

 

Don--thanks! How is the edge "stretching" on the Leica 18mm vs the CV 15. Example: When a subject is near the edge of the frame on either side and reasonably close does it get distorted and/or pulled in a way that you can really tell? (The CV15 does that.)

 

Offshore--good tips. BTW, they've extended the rebate on all covered lenses until August 14th, per the PDF at B&H. (Just found out this morning, too.)

[Hacker]

different focal, different aperure and different price.

You can compare them?

 

Cheers

Francesco

 

I agree, the direct comparison with the Leica would be the Color-Skopar 18mm f/4.

 

[sean_reid]

Extreme vigneting on full frame film, less so on M8 Digital, but still noticeable, and my Leica 24mm finder is the current one which should be spot on for 18mm on digital M8, but in my view is not accurate enough. Don:o

 

Ah...on film.

 

On film perhaps so. I haven't used that combination. The vignetting on the M8 (if the CV 15 is coded) isn't bad at all.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[adan]

Will: I have both. I have not shot a head-to-head comparison yet, but have these impressions:

 

>> The 18 f/3.8 is a bit contrastier and pinker than the 15 f/4.5. More in line with Leica's other ASPH lenses, although a bit less so. I can get 18mm images to "match" the drawing of my Mandler lenses with a little work in the raw developer - something I could not ever do with the 28 ASPHs or the 24 f/2.8

 

>> The 18 stretches less than the 15 - but that is purely a function of focal length and FoV. Take a 15mm shot and crop it so that FoV is that of the 18, and the corner stretching will be about the same.

 

>> Vigentting with either lens is neglible on the M8 - I usually have to ADD darkening to the corners with either lens to get the classic wide-angle-on-film look when I want it.

 

>> I use a Leica 21mm viewfinder with the 18 on an M8 - it is quite accurate at infinity, but at closer distances with the 18, requires being generous in allowing space within the finder, especially at the top, to avoid unintentionally cropped heads and so on. Leica's accessory finders assume some image cropping from slide mounts or negative carriers, so the 21 finder view is actually about a "23mm" view for digital purposes.

 

>> I got the 18mm so that I would not have to carry both a 21 and a 15. The 18 really does for me what a 21 did on film, in terms of a wide-anlge look that puts the viewer in the middle of the action. Given the relatively low trade-in value of the 15, I kept that as well for those times I really need the extra "19mm" coverage for architecture and such. I have not actually used the 15 since getting the 18 - 18/28/90 is now my main M8 shooting trio.

 

Hacker: I hope you realize the C/V 18 f/4 was never more than an unproduced prototype. It is great that you have one - but not a realistic choice for anyone to consider, since they are not available on the marketplace. Why test something no-one can buy?

 

Assignment shot with 18mm and M8 - archaeologist in the field

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[LeicaMSeattle]

I have the new CV 15mm and have had great results. It's a great value for the money.

 

Infrared telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea in Hawaii, a sunset at Lahaina on Maui Hawaii and a interior shot of my accomodations in Maui.

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[wstotler]

Will: I have both. I have not shot a head-to-head comparison yet, but have these impressions:

<snip>

 

Andy! Thank you! That was *exactly* what I was seeking--some confirmations, comments, and impressions from an owner of the CV 15 and the new 18mm.

 

I really appreciate the detail you provided--and that you addressed my specific questions--and the accompanying shot w/inset. Super, super helpful.

 

Total ditto: "I got the 18mm so that I would not have to carry both a 21 and a 15." I'm hopeful! If the quality is there my CV glass is going to gather some dust.

 

Thanks!

Will

[offshore]

Hi!

 

I really respect my CV15 and have had it for almost three years. It was my third lens, after a 35mm and 50mm Summicron ASPH.

 

However. . . . I've been eyeing up the new f/3.8 18mm from Leica as a potential significant "upgrade" to the CV15. (I'm passing on the Zeiss Distagon after reading a lot about it--nothing "wrong" with it, but I have my eye on the Leica.)

 

Sean hasn't done a comparison of the 18mm with the 15mm CV yet. . . .

 

If you have both the CV15 and also a new 18mm, can you help me out?

 

(1) Edge Stretching. How is the 18mm's distortion and/or "stretching" of subjects, especially near the edges of the frame? Compared to the CV15. Roughly More? Roughly Less? Roughly the Same? Or. . . . None.

 

(2) Rendition/handling of color. Is this mostly like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons, for example)? It's absolutely subjective--but side-by-side the CVs always seem to be more "burned in" with their colors than the Leicas.

 

(3) Rendering Character. I don't have the technical vocabulary to quantify Leica drawing vs. CV drawing, but fine details are handled very differently with the CV glass. I guess I'm just seeking confirmation that the 18m draws somewhat like other modern ASPH Leica glass (the Summicrons)--and not like the CVs. I'd expect this to be true, but I'd rather ask.

 

Thanks in advance! The Leica is significant $$$ and comments from people who have both lenses and some real-world experience will be very helpful before I make a final decision.

 

Thanks much!

Will

FYI I just received my CV 15 and did some shooting with it where I live and here are some quick and dirty impressions. I've owned two 15 CV's in the past that were LTM and my impression of them was they were tinny, not real sharp and had a lot of distortion. I did shoot them on film cameras though so they were a full 15. A lot of CV users would say well what do you want for a super wide under $500 but when you pick up a Leica lens the CV just felt tinny. Not so with this new one. Though it is light, which is a blessing, it feels and operates like a Leica lens. Focus is very smooth and the aperture ring is more solid than my 28 mm F2.8 Elmarit ASPH and snaps right in. My images show the 15 CV is not as sharp as my 21 mm F2.8 pre ASPH Elmarit at F5.6 (both lenses) in the center but maintains its sharpness across the frame better than the Leitz 21. We're talking very minute differences here though so I'm overall very pleased with the purchase and will enjoy using this focal length on my M8. Hope this helps.

[TDR]

Any insiders here have any idea when the 18mm viewfinder will become available?

 

-Tim

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[wstotler]

I ordered the lens and the filter today. (Will order the 18mm finder when it's available more widely.)

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

Thanks,

Will