To buy or not?

[Coops]

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Hi all,

been lurking here a while trying to gather as much information as possible on the M8 with regard to buying one in the near future,well in the next week as the £500 cashback ends next week!

I've certainly picked up a load of great information,here's the thing though,I've been a Canon SLR user and never even used a rangefinder before but always been a dream of mine to own a Leica M8.

Its such a huge amount of money to make a mistake,yes I know I can always sell it on but I really want to get to learn and use a rangefinder.

I mainly shoot street photography and obviously the M8 is perfect for this but I'm just having doubts about all the little niggles that the M8 has.

I suppose what I'm really after is someone to say its a fantastic camera and stop being a flapper and just buy one and enjoy it.

Being a new user,will all the niggles of the framelines not matching certain lenses etc be to much for a new user?

Thanks all.

[vla]

coops,

 

the question is why you have been dreaming of owning an m8. you need to find out whether the things this camera offers really matches with what you value in photography - i.e.

• freedom in designing the picture the way you want
  
• frustration resistance whenver you screw up - unlike in an auto-pilot-like dslr it's you to blame when the picture is not the way you intended
  
• desire or need to use an understated camera not recognized by too many
  
• inclination towards perfectionism (otherwise you wouldn't be willing to pay that large premium for leica lenses) combined with affinity for minimalism (the m8 can do fewer things than most dslrs - but those really well)
  
• affinity for high-precision engineering combined with tolerance towards occasional quality glitches
  
• sympathy for the camera's known shortcomings - ir-issue, high noise at high isos, less-than-perfect framelines
  
• tolerance towards slightly dated electronics - hey, this camera is from 2007!
  

you can continue to read postings for weeks, but the best thing to do is to get an m8 for an afternoon (or even weekend), try it out and see how it feels in your hands.

but be warned - increased risk of addiction ...

 

best,

markus

 

ps - in case you do want to do more reading, here are two articles i found helpful -

 

Leica M6 : A personal review of the M6 and several lenses - photo.net

Leica M8 and Summarit-M Lenses Review - photo.net

[Julian Thompson]

Stop being a flapper and just buy one and enjoy it.

 

There we go.

 

:--)

 

Seriously - welcome.

 

The 'niggles' you mention are not worth concerning yourself with. On the internet when you get groups of people discussing a product in minute and repetitive exhaustive detail you will always get a lot of feedback on flaws and problems so I don't think the M8 is unique there.

 

If you have a good dealer (I use Stephens in Manchester who are simply BRILLIANT by the way) then you need not worry eveb if you were unlucky enough to have any problems, because in my experience the service you will receive will be second to none.

 

Secondly - don't worry about the rangefinder thing. It's so easy to use - I came from an SLR too, buying my 8.2 without even trying one first but having read this forum quite a bit! The amount I have learnt about taking pictures and the unchangeable principles within photography since I had the camera is worth the price of the camera alone! I'm just so much better because everything about the Leica makes me concentrate on the image rather than the programming of a raft of settings. There is aperture, shutter speed and sensitivity and a simple light meter built in. Then focus it as you see the image. BOOM. done! Marvellous.

 

Finally - lenses. The lenses. What can I say. I know they're costly but for goodness sake have a look at some of the images in the photo forum - they're astonishing. Since I have been shooting my m8 (with a 'cron 35 and '75) my friends and family - who are not photographic enthusiasts - have all remarked without prompting at the quality of my pictures. They never did that when I was using the Nikon SLR. That's not a scientific piece of information I know but it's a fact nonetheless. The shots are so appealing.

 

That's it from me - can't help you any more - except perhaps suggest you call David at Stephens in the morning and read out your credit card number.

 

See you in the photo section :-))

[Coops]

Wow two great replies,really appreciate it,

I've been trying to hire an M8 but I cant find anyone who hires them out anymore,I know The classic camera used to but they've stopped doing it for some reason?

Your so right about reading too much on the Internet,but I'm just going to read your links now.

Thanks again for the recommendations of the dealers.

I'll keep you posted and hopefully see you all in the photo section!

[vla]

coops,

glad you found my remarks helpful. here in germany it's generally easy to get an m8 for a couple of hours. in case you feel like spending a weekend in berlin, i could recommend a very good dealer.

 

btw - i forgot one aspect in favor of the m8 that has been very important to me - when shooting dng the m8 reduces in camera filtering and post-processing to an absolute minimum -

• no anti-alias filter, i.e. you get every bit of contrast out of those wonderful lenses (and yes, sometimes you have to deal with moiré)
  
• no (or at least) minimal noise reduction - yes, you will get luminance noise at higher isos, but you will also get a dynamic range which simply blows away most dslrs out there
  

so what you get is a real digital negative, not a pre-fab jpeg which some default (and probably suboptimal) contrast, color, sharpness, etc. settings. again, it's up to you to make the best (or the worst) out of your files in post-processing. to me this authenticity of m8 picture taking was one of the most important buying criteria.

 

markus

[tbarker13]

A place like this is a good place to come to get more confused when trying to make a decision like this. You'll find people here who love the M8. People who hate it. And people like me who have a love/hate relationship with the camera.

In the end, it's your money. At least you know that if you do buy one, you won't be facing any nasty surprises like those of us who bought the first ones that came out of the factory.

If you've been reading these forums, you know some of the issues these cameras have had. And you also know that they can produce wonderful images.

 

In the end, I'd say that life is short. Enjoy it. If you think an M8 or M8.2 is going to aid your enjoyment of life (and you don't have to put yourself in financial hardship to do it), then buy the camera. And go have fun.

[jaay]

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It is a lot of money and I can suggest you go to a Leica dealer and spend some time in the shop having a proper play with the camera. Get to see if you like the feel and the focusing method since you're new to rangefinders. I'm a canon DSLR user too with a 20D, 40D and a 1DIII and I bought an M8 as I found the weight and size of my 1DIII to be a pain when I didn't need AF. I have a love hate relationship with all my cameras, but when it comes to the M8 I love it more than hate it. Yea it has issues, but so do the canons as nothing is perfect. Once you get used to the M8, get a few lenses you like, code them and get you're RAW processing sorted the Leica will give you photos that the canon cant match even after hours of manipulation.

[jaapv]

Yes - Tim is right, it has been a roller coaster ride for the early adopters. I got one of the very first cameras in early November 2006, and it had the IR issue (not that it was that much of an issue, Ii figured it out in five minutes and had my first filter the next day), it had the "beam-me-up-Scotty" ( my shot of it, the first victim, must still be somewhere on Sean's site) prismatic waterfall banding, the high-ISO banding, and you know what? I bought a second body just not to be without it for the recall in January 2007, it was that great a camera to use.

I took it sailing in the hot humid tropics, skiing in really cold and wet conditions, into the dusty heart of Africa, and went on safari with the Visoflex and 400. It never failed me once.

I would say: go for it and enjoy.

[john_newell]

I am sort of where you are.

 

My past in a nutshell: M3 + 50mm Summicron 1972. Nikkormat FTn, 135/2.8 + 24/2.8 1973. Innumerable Leica M and R and Nikon SLR sinnce then.

 

Two years ago, decided to breach the digital barrier; took a two-fold approach. First, bought a Coolscan V to scan my negs/slides.Second, bought a used D100 that would work with a few of my mostly MF lenses.

 

The scanner was, and to my immense frustration, remains, a near-total bust.

 

The D100 was far from perfect as a tool, but it was a perfect proof of concept and I have more or less made the digtal transition. If you asked my film bodies, they'd say I'd made it completely, since they haven't been used in almost two years.

 

I still missed/miss the Leicas. Partly because while not every Leica lens out there is a barn-burner, many are, and partly because an SLR will never take the place of an SLR (or DSLR) in a niche of photography that is important to me. So...I'm looking at my M6es and thinking...what the heck do I do with these? The only "use" they get is monthly exercse to keep the shutters runnng.

 

I read and read and read about the M8. Honestly, you can go crazy reading all the stuff (I am using a polite word) out there. I found (yesterday) a local dealer with a "Test Drive" M8 (apparently a Leica program) and rented it for a week. Very early verdict? I like the images. I'm shootinng with an E60 Elmarit 21mm, a 35mm S-ASPH, a 50mm Summilux (last pre-ASPH), a 90mm AAS, a 3E and (courtesy of the dealer) a 75mm Summarit. The images (I am a raw shooter) process nicely in Lightroom - haven't tried Capture One, which is supposed to be better.

 

Yeah, the foibles. Every digital camera has foibles. Ya know what? My film bodies have foibles, starting with the fact that digitizing the negatives at a quality level I am happy with is hard and/or expensive and/or very time consuming.

 

I owned an RD-1 for a couple of years - loved the images, didn't really love the huge body, wierd controls and short-base rangefinder. Good images, though. The M8 blows it away, even without considering potentially irrelevant factors like build quality.

 

I figured the price of the rental was actually priceless because I could try before I buy - and avoid a potentially very expensive mistake, since there's no question that I'll have to sell my two M6es to fund the M8. As I said, after a day or so, my early verdict is I like it.

 

One funny note - I used to have, and my older son now has, an M5. The M8 is just enough bigger that it reminds me a bit of the M5 (without the funny ends). Be that as it may,it (like the M5!) may just be a classic not yet recognized. BTW/FWIW, I do *not* expect to see a FF digital Leica M. I would not wait...also btw/fwiw, I sold that D100 earlier this year, but not because of its image quality. A good 6MP camera can still make very, very good image files.

 

'Nother funny note. I was about the sell the 3E, but I might not - it is so totally perfect on the M8! Sharp, convenient, fun to use. Geat stuff.

 

I am pretty sure I'm going to go for the M8 and part with my wonderful M6es...the M8 isn't perfect, but it's very, very good and it's going to be a lot more useful than the M6es... However, if you are not a confirmed rangefiner user, you should do your homework first. IMO, and I have been a Leica user for 35+ years, the M rangefinder is a niche tool. It wouldn't work for much of what I enjoy doing - but it is irreplaceable for some of what I most enjoy doing. YMMV?

[ptarmigan]

I've had my M8 for less than 2 weeks - another purchase before the £500 deal ran out. I shoot a D2x with a plethora of lenses and just have the 35 cron ASPH for the M8. I bought the lens s/h.

 

I am loving using it. Sure it's slower, the metering totally different and much less sophisticated and my eyesight isn't brilliant which is not exactly helping with focusing.

 

Best thing I ever did and when I have learned how to use it properly you may even see me posting some images!

[john_newell]

Nicely made points. You do not have to have been using these things since forever in order to enjoy and use them well. Folks should be clear about what they will, and won't, do well, however. I speak as a former Visoflex III owner/user. Some things are better done with an SLR, but not all...

[scaryink]

As a street camera the RF is perfect. This is true for both the film and digital M's (as well as other manufacturers). Very few people notice the kit you can get into places that DSLR's are not allowed. More important is its size. You can always carry it with you - so more shooting possibilities.

 

The Leicas are peerless as the best all around urban shooting cameras.

 

It is not a camera for fashion, high action sports, macro or wildlife. Its flash capabilities are quite limited and you cant shoot tethered or have plug in power. Its not a studio camera.

[Ecaton]

The M8 is and feels like a real camera. And not a play-station like computer to which monster lenses can be mounted. That's why its use is so enjoyable. But the real reason to get and use one are the M lenses.

[delander †]

If you buy an M8 and telephoto sport/action is important to you, you will need keep a DSLR set up to cover that.

 

Otherwise you will use your M8. There is something about the way of working and the RAW files that the camera produces. No AA filter, enables me to make A3+ prints even after considerable cropping. Dont forget to use Capture One for converting your RAW files.

 

I would say go for it and enjoy. There are people here who held out as long as they could and then others who bought, then sold and have since bought again.

 

Jeff

[Coops]

Once again thanks for the great information everyone,certainly eased my fears,I'm going to take the plunge and get one on Friday.

Silly question but will Adobe camera raw convert the files?

Thanks again.

[vanhulsenbeek]

.

Silly question but will Adobe camera raw convert the files?

 

On this Forum no question is silly and the answer is Yes.

 

Lightroom is also great with the M8 DNG's, and so are most, if not all, other converters. C1 may give the best colors. Also Picassa does well.

All a matter of taste, and convenience.

 

Go for it and don't look back

[farnz]

Coops,

 

You have a private message.

 

Pete.

[Coops]

Coops,

 

You have a private message.

 

Pete.

Thanks Pete, replied..

[pmun]

Coops, I went through the same thing myself a couple of months a go. I was using a Ricoh GRD2 and very happy with it. I especially wanted more involvement with my photography as well as the improved quality. Using the M8 I have such a definite and positive sense of what I’m doing. I think about the light and distance more and feel closer optically to what's going on.

 

I also paint, and instead of using brush I paint with my hands to get a sense of the paint and my involvement with it. The M8 has given me something parallel in photography.

 

Other than my two bedroom flat, this is the most expensive thing I've ever bought and I'm glad I did. It's an exceptional camera. Go on... One word of advice, before buying ask the dealer if they can lend you the IR/UV filter (that is free from Leica) as there seems to be quite a delay at the moment and it does affect the colours (I don't know how important it is for B&W work).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[danhefner]

It's all about the lenses.

 

If you can get a half way decent shot off with a Leica M, your friends, family, (and perhaps enemies) will complement enough of your photos to keep you motivated.

 

Get your Leica M8. Get a nice lens. Have fun.