earleygallery Posted November 8, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Before too many send their cameras back I really think Leica HQ should make an official statement, this is becoming a bit of a shambles IMO. I think a first hand statement regarding the likely firmware and hardware solutions to the problems which have come to light is essential - especially some clarity on the news regarding use of IR filters to fix the magenta cast problem (i.e. is this a temporary fix until a replacement screen can be fitted or is this THE answer?). I really fear that the M8 could be dead in the water without such a statement. Fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here Request to Solms - an official statement please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 8, 2006 I feel similarly. I don't need the details of the solution but a statement to admit there is a problem and that it is being worked on. Without that i'm not buying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 8, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 8, 2006 Did it ever come to mind that the vast majority of M8 buyers does not visit this forum, or any other forum where these issues are discussed? It is also possible that a vast majority of M8 users, just as Sean Read, Michael Reichman and all the other reviewers .. do not run into the problems discussed here, or do not notice them, or find them of minor importance for their general way of shooting. So why would Leica make an official statement and shoot themself in the foot:confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetccox Posted November 8, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 8, 2006 It would appear, given the statement by Leica USA, that the magenta problem has been known for some time. They of course did not want to mention this in their advertising. I do not find the filter an acceptable solution and don't understand why anyone else would either. I am not a professional photographer by any stretch of the imagination but still like black to be black in my photographs. I understand that only some types of material will come out purple, but it seems no other camera on the market has this problem (not to mention the banding and green spot issues). The physics involved in this scenario with the IR and the sensor glass has to have been known long beforehand - in fact many years ago. For what I do with the camera it probably will not be a problem for me, but it is like having a bad pixel on your monitor screen - you keep looking at it! And for this price and from this company I simply expect and demand perfection. Yes, let us wait and see what else Leica comes up with, but I think I can see the handwriting on the wall (and it isn't black). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 8, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 8, 2006 earlygallery - yes - i would also want to hear what is gonna happen with it... j.borger... man.. do u hear what u say??? u say that the camera has a fuck and because some people do not notice it then company like leica can ignore it... man.. if that is what they will do, im telling u, even the perfect m11 - i will not buy anything digital from leica. people dont notice so it is ok is good for c-lux camera not m8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 8, 2006 So why would Leica make an official statement and shoot themself in the foot:confused: Because leica only exists by reputation and a dedicated fanbase. Because once a few people have a problem with a $5000 purchase the company should act. Because if they decide against doing so then it makes me think leica aren't the compay I thought they were and certainly not one who deserve my $5000. Because one of their reps publically said that the cause of any banding issue was due to the first 5 cameras sold in the country being pre-production models. Really? So, what's going on with the banding issues all the other people are seeing? Oh, and because, in some countries, denial will lead to lawsuits. Just ask apple, sony, dell and many others. None of us want to see leica go anywhere but to big success. But I, for one, am not willing to support them 'at any cost'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 8, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 8, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because once a few people have a problem with a $5000 purchase the company should act. Ok .. but they can act by working on it without shouting it from the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted November 8, 2006 Did it ever come to mind that the vast majority of M8 buyers does not visit this forum, or any other forum where these issues are discussed? It is also possible that a vast majority of M8 users, just as Sean Read, Michael Reichman and all the other reviewers .. do not run into the problems discussed here, or do not notice them, or find them of minor importance for their general way of shooting. So why would Leica make an official statement and shoot themself in the foot:confused: Not sure where you get your information from as to M8 users and forum participation, but the members here are mostly loyal dedicated Leica customers. Also there will be many looking at the threads here as 'guests' only, including photo trade journalists and competitors of Leica. Clearly 'the vast majority' of users who have not experienced the IR problem have not used the camera in a situation yet which has made the issue noticeable. Leica don't seem to be saying that it doesn't exist, quite the opposite in fact and it's clarity I'm suggesting that they provide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 8, 2006 Ok .. but they can act by working on it without shouting it from the roof. Because there are mixed messages flying from dealers and like reps. If they feel there IS an issue then they need to say so. Its only right for those who already own one and those about to hand over $5000. And, if they think it ISN'T an issue then i really want to know as it probably means I won't be purchasing. All they are doing right now is making me have real doubts about them, something that I didn't think would ever happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 8, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 8, 2006 j.borger... man.. do u hear what u say???u say that the camera has a fuck and because some people do not notice it then company like leica can ignore it... Ignoring and thinking twice before making things worse are two different things. It's like if you go to the hospital ...... they will not tell you the bad news until they have a thought out plan of action! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
popum Posted November 8, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 8, 2006 There are models of successful corporate responses to these kinds of events and ineffective responses. The Leica response, to date, will eventually be a good Harvard Business School case study of how to ruin a world class brand. The key to successfully navigating through these situations is open, candid, honest, pro-active comunications.... none of which we've seen to date. We are seeing the worst of corporate arrogance. I, for one, am very depressed about this situation. I was not a Leica film user, but have been accumulating Leica lenses over the past few months in anticipation of the M8. I now have some beautiful paper weights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 8, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 8, 2006 Received my M8 today first shot in my studio exhibited the banding problem, I did not even try for it, second shot of some one wearing a black jacket exhibited the purple jacket phenom. It is beyond me how Leica could have allowed this to go into production, I am actually getting better results with my dlux3!!! I agree at least an official position would be a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 8, 2006 Ignoring and thinking twice before making things worse are two different things.It's like if you go to the hospital ...... they will not tell you the bad news until they have a thought out plan of action! Yes, but most leica purchasers are fans and I imagine they will put up with the problems if they feel a solution is forthcoming. Just look at all the people already on this forum who are waiting patiently for a response. I just don't feel that is how a company like leica should be treating their loyal customers. At least not if they want them to stay loyal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 8, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 8, 2006 Clearly 'the vast majority' of users who have not experienced the IR problem have not used the camera in a situation yet which has made the issue noticeable. Leica don't seem to be saying that it doesn't exist, quite the opposite in fact and it's clarity I'm suggesting that they provide. Did you read the reactions to the idea of the IR filter as brought to us by Sean Read? Perhaps Leica is now rethinking that cure .. before it is "Official" ! Do not get me wrong i hope for clarity and a good solution too. I just try to understand what must be going on on Leica Headquarters. I feel we already passed the point where open communication can turn the disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 8, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 8, 2006 Yes, but most leica purchasers are fans and I imagine they will put up with the problems if they feel a solution is forthcoming. And that''s exactly where i think different .... you are probably right about the Leica purchasers .. but the M8 got interest from a lot of newbies .. who had to buy their first lenses for this upcoming beauty .. If this group cancels orders and jumps the ship .... they will be lost forever .. no matter whar cure Leica comes with. They will dump their lenses on e-bay and take their loss, even before the M8 matured! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share #16 Posted November 8, 2006 There are models of successful corporate responses to these kinds of events and ineffective responses. The Leica response, to date, will eventually be a good Harvard Business School case study of how to ruin a world class brand. The key to successfully navigating through these situations is open, candid, honest, pro-active comunications.... none of which we've seen to date. We are seeing the worst of corporate arrogance. I, for one, am very depressed about this situation. I was not a Leica film user, but have been accumulating Leica lenses over the past few months in anticipation of the M8. I now have some beautiful paper weights. Mike - welcome to the forum. Thank you, you get my point exactly. I love Leica, I have both film and digital versions, and I have been considering rationalising my current 35mm and MF systems to one camera, the M8. In the absence of a proper official response, by that I mean a first hand message from Leica Solms to reassure people, the rumours as to what can/can't be done and disatisfaction of the initial purchasers will spread far and wide, causing damage to the Leica brand which will be a lot harder for them to fix than a couple of software/hardware problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frc Posted November 8, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 8, 2006 To me it seems appropriate to expect Leica to at least inform the new ownwers of their failing product. Especialy the pro users who are now having trouble in not having the proper camera for planned jobs. Sometimes already having soled the previous backup cam. Not knowing wether or not they can rely upon support from Solms soon puts them in an extremely awkward position. Waiting any longer before putting out info on the topic can only weaken their credibility. It's taken so long that I have decided not to purchase until the Press, reviewers have thoroughly tested it and approve of the working order. Not angry, disappointed though. Glasnost please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 8, 2006 ...The key to successfully navigating through these situations is open, candid, honest, pro-active communications... Agree. Negating the facts or procrastination are always the worst solutions. Customers should know asap if banding and color cast problems can be addressed by software of if the bodies must be taken back by Leica. The sooner Leica will communicate on this the better things will be for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted November 8, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 8, 2006 And that''s exactly where i think different .... you are probably right about the Leica purchasers .. but the M8 got interest from a lot of newbies .. who had to buy their first lenses for this upcoming beauty .. If this group cancels orders and jumps the ship .... they will be lost forever .. no matter whar cure Leica comes with. They will dump their lenses on e-bay and take their loss, even before the M8 matured! I guess our views just differ on this. I'm basically an example of the person you illustrated. I bought 7 rangefinder lenses and an R-D1 with a view to the M8 being the camera I was actually after. Right now if I had an M8 I would be looking to get my money back and sell m lenses. And obviously I wouldn't need to buy a leica lens again. At least coming out and admitting to what is going on and letting people know the score would allow them to make educated decisions. Companies like leica can't afford to make these mistakes, pure and simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 9, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2006 I guess our views just differ on this. I guess the views at Leica HQ will also differ .... it realy must be a nightmare for them .. damn difficult .. to get out of this alive! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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