New Nokton 50mm f/1.1 coming from Cosina

[luigi bertolotti]

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I wonder why they didn't make it a nice round f1.0. Perhaps that extra 0.33 of a stop racks the production costs up significantly, but I find that hard to believe.

 

Similarly why f1.5, and not f1.4, for the Noktons?

 

Just curious really.

 

Fine-tuned marketing is the answer, imho, and CV has proven smart in this: 1,5, to leicaphiles, sounds old "Xenon-Summarit" ... surely the CV stands up great towards them... not so towards the Lux 50 asph, I think. This new Nokton doesn't dare to occupy the extreme areas of Noctiluxes... it reminds us the ill fated (but much valued) Zunow 1,1 ... it goes BEYOND the Hexanon 1,2 (a tasty lens), so as their 15, savvy limited to 4,5, doesn't challenge the bulky/costly Zeiss of same focal... and again, look at how many people still value a lot, for use, the Summicron C 40... what did they ? a 40 that is 1,4... "ok, it's not the Cron... but 1 full stop more does mean something or not ?".

Apart and beyond any evaluation on the real quality of their products, this smart policy has always delighted me, for it proves how a marketing wise management can finely adress his potential customer set.

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[rwchisholm]

I, too, will wait to see some examples from the productions lens. The bokeh in Tom's photos seems a little "busy" to me. I am hoping that the bokeh wide open will be similar in "look" to the 35 1.2 nok, which has a very sleepy/creamy effect.

 

I have run into more sample variation than I would like with my recent CV purchases; That said, if you purchase from Cameraquest, Stephen will swap out a bad sample, no questions asked. --Rob

[henning]

When looking at Tom's test images I noted that the left side was softer than the right. I asked Tom about it yesterday evening, and he said it was due to his scanner. I think he has a 5000ED, so maybe I should go over and tune it up for him. Mine certainly does better. In any case, judgement about image quality should be left until production samples arrive. BTW, my 35 Summilux ASPH was noticeably better at all stops except f/1.4 than Tom's 35/1.2.

 

The lens certainly has many attractive qualities, not least being the price. The most unfortunate, as with the new 0.95 Nocti, is the 1m focussing limit.

 

But the Nokton is inexpensive, significantly lighter and has nice knurling. It's not a whole lot heavier than a chrome Summilux ASPH, but sized like the first Nocti f/1. Looks like a very practical lens. Not one to replace a f/1 Nocti, but opens up low light shooting for many more people.

 

Henning

[sean_reid]

Fine-tuned marketing is the answer, imho, and CV has proven smart in this: 1,5, to leicaphiles, sounds old "Xenon-Summarit" ... surely the CV stands up great towards them... not so towards the Lux 50 asph, I think.

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post but the CV 50/1.5 Nokton compares very well to the 50/1.4 Lux ASPH.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sliversurger]

here's a pic of the CV 1.1 someone posted on flickr

 

Cosina Voigtlander Nokton 50/1.1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[jcraf]

Fine-tuned marketing is the answer, imho, and CV has proven smart in this: 1,5, to leicaphiles, sounds old "Xenon-Summarit" ... surely the CV stands up great towards them... not so towards the Lux 50 asph, I think. This new Nokton doesn't dare to occupy the extreme areas of Noctiluxes... it reminds us the ill fated (but much valued) Zunow 1,1 ... it goes BEYOND the Hexanon 1,2 (a tasty lens), so as their 15, savvy limited to 4,5, doesn't challenge the bulky/costly Zeiss of same focal... and again, look at how many people still value a lot, for use, the Summicron C 40... what did they ? a 40 that is 1,4... "ok, it's not the Cron... but 1 full stop more does mean something or not ?".

Apart and beyond any evaluation on the real quality of their products, this smart policy has always delighted me, for it proves how a marketing wise management can finely adress his potential customer set.

 

Not sure about 'not daring' etc - this is business, and it's all about challenging competitors.

 

I bet if they could have made an f1.0 at a reasonable price they would have done so. I can't imagine that CV give a fig about Leica's feelings!! And it would have sold, just as the f1.1 will surely do (optical performance permitting, of course).

 

Time will tell, and I for one can't wait to try the f1.1.

[luigi bertolotti]

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post but the CV 50/1.5 Nokton compares very well to the 50/1.4 Lux ASPH.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sorry... I have neither of the two... ... was only a guess of my own, given the diffuse opinion of Lux 50 asph as a "beat all" lens...

[sean_reid]

Sorry... I have neither of the two... ... was only a guess of my own, given the diffuse opinion of Lux 50 asph as a "beat all" lens...

 

You might be very surprised at how the two compare in reality.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[biglouis]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post but the CV 50/1.5 Nokton compares very well to the 50/1.4 Lux ASPH.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I agree, I even sold my pre-asph 50-lux because I preferred my Nokton and it was easier to focus. I even sold my 75-cron because in side by side cropping and bokeh tests I really couldn't see any difference compared to the Nokton. Not that this anything to do with the CV50 1.1 other than to point out that when you get a good sample from CV it is very, very good (like my little 28/3.5....)

 

LouisB

[wlaidlaw]

....... and when you get a bad one, it is very very bad. The other major problem in the UK is that if you have a warranty issue and the seller is not prepared to give you a replacement lens, as mine for the 35/1.2 was not, the lens has to go back to Japan. I short cut this process by getting my local lens man to adjust the focus for me for very little money (the internal focus barrel had slipped relative to the rangefinder actuation cam/slope). Sorry if it seems I have a down on CV lenses but three bought - three dogs. (21/4 LTM, 35/1.2 LM and 35/2.5 LTM).

 

I was in HK when I bought the 21/4 and took it back the next day. Even the Tsim Sha Tsui camera shop, not noted for their customer attitude, said "good god that is awful" and I swapped it for a CZ 21/2.8 Biogon and yes I did test it before taking it out of the shop. Different world all together.

 

Wilson

[terrycioni]

....... and when you get a bad one, it is very very bad. The other major problem in the UK is that if you have a warranty issue and the seller is not prepared to give you a replacement lens, as mine for the 35/1.2 was not, the lens has to go back to Japan. I short cut this process by getting my local lens man to adjust the focus for me for very little money (the internal focus barrel had slipped relative to the rangefinder actuation cam/slope). Sorry if it seems I have a down on CV lenses but three bought - three dogs. (21/4 LTM, 35/1.2 LM and 35/2.5 LTM).

 

I was in HK when I bought the 21/4 and took it back the next day. Even the Tsim Sha Tsui camera shop, not noted for their customer attitude, said "good god that is awful" and I swapped it for a CZ 21/2.8 Biogon and yes I did test it before taking it out of the shop. Different world all together.

 

Wilson

 

Wilson, you certainly have made your point in a number of posts. I get your frustration. I on the other hand have a number of CV lenses which are fine (including a 35mm F1.2) and when I have had a problem (rare) Mr. Gandy at cameraquest or my local camera shop who sell CV have been extraordinarily supportive.

 

I need another 50mm lens like I need a hole in the head - so whether I buy this lens or not will be another matter. It does however look interesting. Even at that I don't think 1200$ US dollars is a bargain - imagine how I feel about the cost of a new Noctilux.

 

Best regards. Terry

[sean_reid]

....... and when you get a bad one, it is very very bad. The other major problem in the UK is that if you have a warranty issue and the seller is not prepared to give you a replacement lens, as mine for the 35/1.2 was not, the lens has to go back to Japan. I short cut this process by getting my local lens man to adjust the focus for me for very little money (the internal focus barrel had slipped relative to the rangefinder actuation cam/slope). Sorry if it seems I have a down on CV lenses but three bought - three dogs. (21/4 LTM, 35/1.2 LM and 35/2.5 LTM).

 

I was in HK when I bought the 21/4 and took it back the next day. Even the Tsim Sha Tsui camera shop, not noted for their customer attitude, said "good god that is awful" and I swapped it for a CZ 21/2.8 Biogon and yes I did test it before taking it out of the shop. Different world all together.

 

Wilson

 

Hi Wilson,

 

Well, that isn't an impressive track record is it? Did these all come from the same supplier?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[scaryink]

I have 3 CV lenses. the 35 2.5 II, 50 1.5 and the 28 1.9. All are excellent lenses. I purchased them from cameraquest and have never had a return.

[wlaidlaw]

Hi Wilson,

 

Well, that isn't an impressive track record is it? Did these all come from the same supplier?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean,

 

No I bought the 35/1.2 new from a UK supplier, the 21/4 new in Hong Kong and the 35/2.5 Classic LTM second hand on eBay. I really don't mind too much about the 35/2.5 as it spends nearly all its life on my IIF and is just fine on AgfaPan 400. It makes for a tiny lightweight camera combination. You can peer round the corner in the VF to get an idea on framing.

 

I had intended to persist with my 35/1.2 after I had had it adjusted, as at least it was focusing accurately. However after I got my wonderful ASPH 35 Summilux on appro, I paid for it the day I got it and put the Nokton on eBay the same day. Now I suspect that I have/had lenses at the extreme ends of their ranges. An ASPH 35 Lux as good as they come and a "Friday" Nokton but one can only make definitive judgements on one's own personal experience.

 

I did give CV one more chance (after reading your reviews!) and bought the 35/2.5 Color Skopar Classic from someone who said they had hardly used it and the cosmetic condition bears it out. It is lovely little lens to use but my one is just too soft to use on the M8 (its focus is within reasonable tolerances), unless I deliberately want a gentle look but I tend to use my 1953 50 Summitar on the M8, if I want an antique appearance. The CS 35 only improves marginally as you stop down.

 

Wilson

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[luigi bertolotti]

Not sure about 'not daring' etc - this is business, and it's all about challenging competitors.

 

I bet if they could have made an f1.0 at a reasonable price they would have done so. I can't imagine that CV give a fig about Leica's feelings!! And it would have sold, just as the f1.1 will surely do (optical performance permitting, of course).

 

Time will tell, and I for one can't wait to try the f1.1.

 

Hum... I don't think so (but don't want to impose my opinion ): my idea is that with a little effort they could have declared it a "1,0" lens (let us not forget the tolerancing on PRECISE measurement of real aperture...) : and is true that, as you say, it's all about challenging competitors... but imho their focused strategy is not to challenge Leica squarely/trivially "face to face" : for instance, is significant they made a 75 2,5 BEFORE Summarit intro, not AFTER... Leica can do: they are THE BRAND, they are "beyond competition" by definition; I mean, they tend to put themselves always, as possible, a little APART the nearest/obvious Leica "equivalent" (I even suspect that, wouldn't it be for the issue of VF, they would have done further "lateral" announcements... to say, a 57 f1,1... a 70 f1,8 or so...): this, in my opinion, is the "smartness" of their marketing strategy... matching, simply, the Leica product line in terms of focal/aperture mix would be trivial... the market perception would be "the cheap/poor alternative to Leica", and no more... a lessening image... (remember the 35mm SLR lenses' brands that never went beyond 200 3,5 or 28 2,8 and similar... they disappeared) ; on the contrary, making something "a little different" enforces their reputation as a brand that, at good prices, has something OF ITS OWN to offer to Leica customers... don't forget they built their success onto the 15... a focal that, for obvious reasons (who does search for a old Hologon TO USE? ) raised instantly the attention of Leica customer base.

 

Sorry for this rather long essay on "aperture as a marketing tool" ... but also Leica plays this game... what is the practical/user difference between 0,95 and 1 ? (btw, f1 is even not engraved on the stop ring, obviously): but, to justify a stellar price, they HAD to show they go BEYOND the "old" Nocti...

[Finnkare]

About the stops: if I counted correct, the stops between 1.0 and 1.4 go as follows:

1/3 stop: 1.1547...

1/2 stop: 1.2247...

2/3 stop: 1.29099...

 

So, a 1.2 can actually be either 1/3 or 1/2 stops from 1.0.

 

1.1 is most definately closer to 1.0 than 1/3 stop. I'll try to count it... it's about 0,826 of 1.0's size. So about 83%, which means about 1/5 stop. But when the marking is so imprecise, in reality it could actually be anything between 77% to 91%, so almost from 1/4 stop to 1/10.

 

Not to mention that some manufacturers (have) exagerrate(d) their aperture markings; that the real aperture would not be as big in reality than they promise... Underexposure as a result. I'm not saying that CV does this, I don't have any proof whatsoever, just mentioning.

[caparobertsan]

1295 AUD!!! . I will miss first shipment and I will get it it for fun.

[offshore]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post but the CV 50/1.5 Nokton compares very well to the 50/1.4 Lux ASPH.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Sean I'm very curious to know in what ways you feel the Nokt compares to the Lux ASPH. I don't own either but have been coveting the Lux for some time.

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[kenneth]

Fast lenses are like fast cars, unnecessary but good for male ego, but I guess it gives bragging rights.

[wlaidlaw]

Fast lenses are like fast cars, unnecessary but good for male ego, but I guess it gives bragging rights.

 

What a load of rubbish. Fast lenses have three very real uses:

 

1) Use in low lighting when you don't want to use high ISO and a flash is unsuitable

2) When you want from the aesthetic point of view, to have a very shallow depth of focus

3) Linked to the above, fast lenses tend to have a particular signature, unique to each lens. This can be used to great effect.

 

Some of my best photos with the M8 were taken when I had a Noctilux and it was being used wide open. Sadly due to an old hand injury plus arthitis, it was just too uncomfortable to use but I still regret letting it go. As and when I can afford it, I will almost certainly get a new Noctilux, which due to the different dimensions, fits my hand much better.

 

Wilson