New Nokton 50mm f/1.1 coming from Cosina

[MV8]

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Looks awesome!

 

Flicker site has samples

 

Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[St Clair]

I guess I'll express the minority opinion here. I'm not that impressed by the sample images. The bokeh isn't nearly as appealing to me as that of the Noctilux, and the lens to my eye doesn't look all that sharp wide open.

 

Haha, how can you even compare it with the Noctilux... It's just an option for people on a budget that can't afford a Nocti, to think it would be on par with it is just daft. Take it for what it's worth, 1/5 the price and only 1/3 of a stop slower. Albeit a bit softer with not as nice bokeh, but again 1/5 the price.

[D&A]

Hi All,

 

I'll give my own personal opinion on number of comments made in postings above. Again it's just my own personal impressions and observations....

 

1. When I have looked at Tom's scanned images with other lenses he's shot with, I noticed often they appeared a somewhat soft. My impression is he is quite conservative when applying sharpening....so often when I've shot with the same lens say on film (and scanned the film image) or on an M8...it appears much sharper. So that aspect of these first images with the 50 f1.1, in terms of how sharp it is, I've taken with a grain of salt and I'm sure in time when the lens is widely distributed, we'll have a much better idea of this parameter.

 

2. From what I've seen of the bokeh, it appears to be very neutral. Again too few shots and subjects to make any sort of determination one way or another. No evidence of the unique signature or swirly bokeh of the Leica f1.0 so far, but I have no idea if even the new Leica 0.95 has it. The 50 f1.1 so far appears to be conventional in it's signature...sort of a cross between a Nockton 50 f1.5 and 35 f1.2...but faster...good sharpness like the 50 f1.5 and bokeh leaning towards the 35 f1.2 and of course all at a great price for a lens this speed. Apparently from what I read, little if any focus shift. A lens that very well may be a best buy in fast glass and a performance to match, but without certain image characteristics that make a Leica 50 f1.0 Noct a Noct.

 

3. As for the VC 35mm f1.2 and comparison to a 35mm f1.4 lux ASPH and how well it matches up in performance...I think Tom may have been right...but it may vary depending on sample tested. Just recently I had the oportunity to test a VC 35mm f1.2 vs. two different 35mm Lux's ASPH (one silver and one black)..both having Leica's apparent recent type of adjustment of this lens of putting the subject focused on (at the very back) of the depth of field when lens is used wide open at f1.4. This allows the subejct to remain in the depth of field as focus shift occurs as the lens is stoped down. Both Lux ASPH exhibited this characteristic. My tests were primarily on the M8, I should note, although I did run a couple of rolls with all lenses. So base my comments below on the M8's 1.3x sensor.

 

Anyhow, using an essentially new VC 35mm f1.2 (chrome) and comparing it to these two 35mm f1,4's the 35mm f1.2 matched both Lux ASPH's f-stop for f-stop in terms of sharpness (resolution) across the etnire frame..edge to edge....and that is with extensive test shots and all examined full frame, and at 100% crops (even 200% for certain detail). As Tom said in the past, (I beleive), one would be hard pressed to tell one lens from the other and even wide open, this was the case. The 35mm f1.2 put the subject more towards center of depth of field wide open and no focus shift detected, so this. helped in it's performance wide open...since the two Lux'es had the subject right at the very back of the depth of field (zone of what was in focus)...which led to a bit of softening detected at 100% crops. The lenses of couse draw quite differently and what was in-focus in front of and behind the main subject that was focused on..differed greatly becuase how the lens were adjusted (as I described above). although quality of bokeh was ever so close. In this case alone, the 35mm f1.2 was close to being the equal of the 35mm f1.4 in terms of sharpness, even wide open but of course the 35mm f1.2 handles differently and is bigger in size. The bonus is of course being able to go down the f1,2, which didn't significantly alter shapness, if one was pushed to use that f-stop in low light.

 

I mention all this, becase in my experience with certain known lenses, a given sample (for example)...the 50mm f1.1, the 35mm f1.4 Lux ASPH or even the 35mm f1.2, it's ultimate performance might certainly depend on a given sample. Other types of lenses often seem to be relatively consistant from sample to sample..it all depends...as does the small subtilties that often exists between two similar speed lenses that perform astonishingly good but one costs 3-5x times as much as the other. Some feel it's worth the price difference for these differences, some don't.

 

D&A

[fotografr]

Haha, how can you even compare it with the Noctilux... It's just an option for people on a budget that can't afford a Nocti, to think it would be on par with it is just daft. Take it for what it's worth, 1/5 the price and only 1/3 of a stop slower. Albeit a bit softer with not as nice bokeh, but again 1/5 the price.

 

I didn't say I expected it to be on a par with a Noctilux. I simply expressed my opinion about the lens based on the images provided. Is something "daft" about that? What's daft is putting words in someone's mouth that were never uttered.

[wlaidlaw]

It's all about the price.... If it as reasonable as the other lenses compared to Leica prices I will give it a try... I assume it will be more like shooting with a Canon 50mm F0.95 than the "real thing"!

 

There is an old saying that makes a lot of sense: "Buy cheap; buy twice". I am afraid it has universally applied to my CV lens purchases. I have only held onto my 35 Color Skopar, as it cost me so little and from time to time, I take off the JM adapter and use it on my Leica IIF. If I had not ended up getting a MATE as a travel lens, I would have bought a 35 Summitar or a 35 Biogon C. I love my 35 ASPH Chrome Summilux but when you carry around a bag all day with that on the M8, plus one wider and one longer lens, it gets heavy.

 

Wilson

[jcraf]

I wonder why they didn't make it a nice round f1.0. Perhaps that extra 0.33 of a stop racks the production costs up significantly, but I find that hard to believe.

 

Similarly why f1.5, and not f1.4, for the Noktons?

 

Just curious really.

[LeicaMSeattle]

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This lens appears to be an excellent lens alternative to those who don't want to spend 4k+ on a Noctilux. CV is spot on with their recent release of their redesigned 15mm SW Heliar lens.

[bill]

I wonder why they didn't make it a nice round f1.0. Perhaps that extra 0.33 of a stop racks the production costs up significantly, but I find that hard to believe.

 

Similarly why f1.5, and not f1.4, for the Noktons?

 

Just curious really.

 

Fair question - I've always put it down to the conscious desire to be (slightly) different. Until recently, the CV line-up was complimentary to, but not directly the same as, the Leica one in aperture, focal length, mount or sometimes all three.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Personally I think Brent (Fotografer) is right, the de-focused area in the CV 50mm 1.1 is not what one would hope for from a Noctilux. but then it is not a Noctilux.

 

This is a classical 80/20 situation. Getting 80% of the bang for 20% of the bucks. in this case clearly some lens "real estate" have been sacrificed. clearly the defocus also have a different quality. one would expect that.

 

I can live with that and have placed a order with CameraQuest, because I think the real value here is "fast cheap lens". The hallmark of this lens surely is going to be putting ultra-fast glass in the hands of talented shooters, who otherwise would not spend the money for a noct, for available darkness photography, and we will all benefit from seeing their work with this lens. the 1.1 will not cannibalize Leica Noct sales as the people purchasing that lens would likely not buy the Voitlander instead.

 

The lens will be a new tool in the bag of many and I am sure it will eventually be seen as a valid lens with a particular signature, once we start seeing images from a bunch of shooters, and the parameters of the lens become established. Because of the price this lens could become more of a "work" tool than then Noct.

 

.

[ljclark]

The hallmark of this lens surely is going to be putting ultra-fast glass in the hands of talented shooters, who otherwise would not spend the money for a noct, for available darkness photography, and we will all benefit from seeing their work with this lens. the 1.1 will not cannibalize Leica Noct sales as the people purchasing that lens would likely not buy the Voigtlander instead.

 

The lens will be a new tool in the bag of many and I am sure it will eventually be seen as a valid lens with a particular signature, once we start seeing images from a bunch of shooters, and the parameters of the lens become established. Because of the price this lens could become more of a "work" tool than the Noct..

 

Thank's for ensuring that a level of insanity is maintained here.

 

Enlightened self-interest.

 

No way is this C/V lens going to take a bite out of Leica Noct sales. It won't even get close enough to sniff the tires of the UPS truck that brought the Noct to your local dealer.

 

But if this lens performs well, and end up in the hands of a several thousands of RF shooters out there, we all benefit. (One wonders who benefits, if anyone, from the Leica-lens-only chest beaters.)

 

I'm not sure if I'll buy one, but I'm certainly glad it's coming onto the market.

[scaryink]

Personally I think Brent (Fotografer) is right, the de-focused area in the CV 50mm 1.1 is not what one would hope for from a Noctilux. but then it is not a Noctilux.

 

What exactly would you hope for from boke in a Noctilux? This whole concept of what is good and not good boke is not possible nor quantifiable.

[sean_reid]

Personally I think Brent (Fotografer) is right, the de-focused area in the CV 50mm 1.1 is not what one would hope for from a Noctilux. but then it is not a Noctilux.

 

This is a classical 80/20 situation. Getting 80% of the bang for 20% of the bucks. in this case clearly some lens "real estate" have been sacrificed. clearly the defocus also have a different quality. one would expect that.

 

I can live with that and have placed a order with CameraQuest, because I think the real value here is "fast cheap lens". The hallmark of this lens surely is going to be putting ultra-fast glass in the hands of talented shooters, who otherwise would not spend the money for a noct, for available darkness photography, and we will all benefit from seeing their work with this lens. the 1.1 will not cannibalize Leica Noct sales as the people purchasing that lens would likely not buy the Voitlander instead.

 

The lens will be a new tool in the bag of many and I am sure it will eventually be seen as a valid lens with a particular signature, once we start seeing images from a bunch of shooters, and the parameters of the lens become established. Because of the price this lens could become more of a "work" tool than then Noct.

 

.

 

Hi Bo,

 

Isn't it a bit early to conclude the 80/20% thing? We don't have the info. yet that would be needed to really know how the two compare. Till then, we're largely working with conjecture.

 

Best,

 

Sean

[Bo_Lorentzen]

scaryink: Good point, I stand corrected - all I can say is based on the images from Tom, I personally like smoother defocus.

 

ljclark: That is what I said, this lens will not affect the noct in any ways. I hope it will however inspire a lot of guys to hit the street after dark. (sorry if that sound like a base level insanity. )

 

Sean: Agree entirely - however the 80/20 teory is what I based my deposit to CameraQuest on. The lens is interesting and I want to play with it. Though I figure I will have to go and compare it directly to a Noct when it get here to, shooting some head on comparison images, to get a working idea of what the lens really is.

 

.

[dseelig]

Anyone know how close this will focus?

[wlaidlaw]

If only Cosina can improve their QC, I could still be interested. Perhaps they should look at how their own Zeiss lenses are controlled. There have been remarkably few complaints about Zeiss lenses on this forum, almost certainly less than Leica. If the track record proves to be good, I could change my mind and put the money I am saving towards a Nocti towards a 24 Lux plus 50 Nokton instead.

 

Wilson

[amigadave]

Anyone know how close this will focus?

 

The data sheet suggests 1 m.

[sean_reid]

If only Cosina can improve their QC, I could still be interested. Perhaps they should look at how their own Zeiss lenses are controlled. There have been remarkably few complaints about Zeiss lenses on this forum, almost certainly less than Leica. If the track record proves to be good, I could change my mind and put the money I am saving towards a Nocti towards a 24 Lux plus 50 Nokton instead.

 

Wilson

 

Hi Wilson,

 

Anecdotally, I seem to see fewer sample variation problems with the more expensive CV lenses like the 35/1.2. In fact, I'm not sure just what build quality gap (if any) exists between that lens and, say, a ZM 35/2.0.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Craftsman]

Haha, how can you even compare it with the Noctilux... It's just an option for people on a budget that can't afford a Nocti, to think it would be on par with it is just daft. Take it for what it's worth, 1/5 the price and only 1/3 of a stop slower. Albeit a bit softer with not as nice bokeh, but again 1/5 the price.

 

I'll bet being a modern design it will preform better than the Noctilux in most regards.And far from being just a poor mans Noctilux it will be a viable addition to super fast 50's.I also bet it has a devastating effect on Noctilux sales.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Being a modern lens, it have good potential to be something exciting.

 

But I don't really think it will affect the sales of Noctilux much, after all the Nissa Z car have not particularly attracted huge sales from Bentley GT buyers.

 

.

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[wlaidlaw]

Hi Wilson,

 

Anecdotally, I seem to see fewer sample variation problems with the more expensive CV lenses like the 35/1.2. In fact, I'm not sure just what build quality gap (if any) exists between that lens and, say, a ZM 35/2.0.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean.

 

I am afraid my 35/1.2 was a desperate disappointment. Even after adjustment, it was very low contrast and very flare prone (i have got pictures with pink circles from the UV/IR filter and almost washed out with flare). After I bought the 35/1.4 ASPH, having given up on the Nokton, it was a real revelation.

 

Now it may be that over the last two years since my last CV lens was built, QC has improved but reports on their newer lenses have not wowed me.

 

Wilson