sdai Posted May 18, 2009 Share #21 Posted May 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, the focus confirmation will use the focus shift data from the lens. ROM R lenses won't fit on the S2. I would presume the next R camera to have the same technology in the new AF R lenses. Existing manual-focus R lenses won't have this data encoded. David Actually, if Leica really is going build a new R camera and make it fully compatible with the manual focusing Rlenses, they can adopt the same technology as well. To do this, one will need to: 1. Have leica does a CLA of the old R lens and bring it into spec. 2. Leica should make the old R lenses recognizable to the new camera or enable the user to input lens data 3. Leica record a data table with pre-calculated shift amount for each lens and each aperture and add compensatio to focus confirmation signal or 4. send every lens andtheir matching body to Leica for full customized calibration in factory Basiccally, the only thing old lenses will lack is auto focusing, insteading of letting the focusing motor movement to do the job, you manually focus based on a compensared confirmation signal. This service could wind up very expensive and Leica may not be slightly interested even you are willing to pay because selling new lenses will always be more lucrative anyways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Hi sdai, Take a look here Lfi 4/2009. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted May 18, 2009 Share #22 Posted May 18, 2009 So R lenses would be more difficult to use on a virtual R10 than Nikkors on actual D3 or D3x? How is it that apparently simple things for others sound always complicated for Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted May 18, 2009 Share #23 Posted May 18, 2009 So R lenses would be more difficult to use on a virtual R10 than Nikkors on actual D3 or D3x? How is it that apparently simple things for others sound always complicated for Leica? Not at all, LCT ... above was only regarding dealing with focus shift. This primarily happens with super fast lenses. The AF camera measures the distance at open aperture so when exposure is made at a stopped down aperture you can see focus shift ... may be between f/2 and f/4, if you stop further down, say for example, f/5.6, f/6.3, f/8 the greater depth of field can mask pretty much all your focusing errors and you'll be ok. To make AI lenses fully functional on a D3 or D700 level body, Nikon still requires you to input the lens data. This brings all back to forum members' petition asking Leica to enable menu input of lens data, they can certainly do it, but they can choose not to do it. And if they do it, it can be very expensive especially with the lens calibration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 18, 2009 Share #24 Posted May 18, 2009 ...To make AI lenses fully functional on a D3 or D700 level body, Nikon still requires you to input the lens data... This brings all back to forum members' petition asking Leica to enable menu input of lens data, they can certainly do it, but they can choose not to do it. And if they do it, it can be very expensive especially with the lens calibration. Agree. Let's just hope that Leica will be open-minded with the R10 if any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmoore Posted May 18, 2009 Share #25 Posted May 18, 2009 Agree. Let's just hope that Leica will be open-minded with the R10 if any. more than hope, I would be very disappointed and would sell the r lens if they will not work on the future r10..even at a loss.. and man will they go down if the new camera won't take them.. I was even thinking about having another lense rom'd.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 18, 2009 Share #26 Posted May 18, 2009 as far as I know...there aren't any other professional camera systems that correct for focus shift. Focus shift correction has been part of Hasselblad’s Ultra-Focus for some time now, so Leica are not the first to apply this kind of correction. See my article on “The Evolution of Lenses” in VICTOR 2/2008. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted May 19, 2009 Share #27 Posted May 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) See my article on “The Evolution of Lenses” in VICTOR 2/2008. Hi Michael, Where can I find Victor, is it a magazine a blog or whatever. Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 19, 2009 Share #28 Posted May 19, 2009 Where can I find Victor, is it a magazine a blog or whatever. VICTOR is Hasselblad’s magazine; it appears in print (13 Euro) and is now available free of charge online (VICTOR by Hasselblad). “The Evolution of Lenses” is available on its own here: http://www.hasselblad.com/downloads/technical-articles.aspx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted May 19, 2009 Share #29 Posted May 19, 2009 .For ultimate focusing accuracy, nothing beats a good manual focusing system letting you focus critically at the shooting aperture, or simply go far live view then it's a none issue. F8 and be there? Works for me. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted May 19, 2009 Share #30 Posted May 19, 2009 The S2 is clearly not going to compete with the Nikon system in terms of complexity or speed but may very well be more accurate. In particular, it takes account of focus shift in each lens - difficult to know exactly but it looks as if the lens will refocus before the exposure based on a table of corrections built into the lens - using both shooting distance and working aperture to determine what is required. It means the S2 can provide a level of focussing accuracy which current M lenses can never provide. For the sort of photography I do with my D3x - which might conceivably be done by an S2 - I use as single focus point not the all singing all dancing 51 point variant. If Leica can deliver better focus than the Nikon in that mode of operation, that will be a technical triumph. I agree Mark, same for me on the D3x re using a single (albeit selectable) AF point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted May 19, 2009 Share #31 Posted May 19, 2009 In fact, the LFI article strongly hinted that Leica will go for multiple AF points in the next generation of S model. To many people's surprise, in those multiple AF points systems, the most accurate AF point is often not the center AF point. Several Japanese photo magazines conduct these kind of tests by shooting a burst in AF-S and AF-C modes, if I'm remembering correctly, I've never seen one single test result showing the most accurate AF point being the center one. When you send your camera into the service center for calibration, they could also tell you about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted May 20, 2009 Share #32 Posted May 20, 2009 In fact, the LFI article strongly hinted that Leica will go for multiple AF points in the next generation of S model. To many people's surprise, in those multiple AF points systems, the most accurate AF point is often not the center AF point. Several Japanese photo magazines conduct these kind of tests by shooting a burst in AF-S and AF-C modes, if I'm remembering correctly, I've never seen one single test result showing the most accurate AF point being the center one. When you send your camera into the service center for calibration, they could also tell you about that. Since my subjects are rarely dead-center in the picture and move too quickly and too often a single AF point does me little good, no matter how accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted May 20, 2009 Share #33 Posted May 20, 2009 VICTOR is Hasselblad’s magazine; it appears in print (13 Euro) and is now available free of charge online (VICTOR by Hasselblad). “The Evolution of Lenses” is available on its own here: Technical articles. Nice article and well written. It was an eye opener for me to see the large differences in MTF for infinity and nearby. At what distance does Leica specify their MTF diagrams for the S2 and the M lenses ? Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted May 20, 2009 Share #34 Posted May 20, 2009 In fact, the LFI article strongly hinted that Leica will go for multiple AF points in the next generation of S model. To many people's surprise, in those multiple AF points systems, the most accurate AF point is often not the center AF point. Several Japanese photo magazines conduct these kind of tests by shooting a burst in AF-S and AF-C modes, if I'm remembering correctly, I've never seen one single test result showing the most accurate AF point being the center one. When you send your camera into the service center for calibration, they could also tell you about that. While I like your enthusiasm, I could not read this by my best will! There are no hints for any future S model, they cannot even give hints for a future R model or a M9. Do I think all what is discussed WRT future models is not even wishful thinking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 20, 2009 Share #35 Posted May 20, 2009 Since my subjects are rarely dead-center in the picture and move too quickly and too often a single AF point does me little good, no matter how accurate. Yes, Doug, but changing AF point when trying to catch the bird does not work either in my experience. Much too slow. I think we'll have to stick to good old manual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 20, 2009 Share #36 Posted May 20, 2009 While I like your enthusiasm, I could not read this by my best will! There are no hints for any future S model, they cannot even give hints for a future R model or a M9. Do I think all what is discussed WRT future models is not even wishful thinking Yes there are. Did you read the article to the end? The LFI article clearly states "the next jobs (sic) just around the bend, as the R9 successor will have an autofocus too. A promise is a promise" No "maybe" or "probably" but "will" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 20, 2009 Share #37 Posted May 20, 2009 Yes, Doug, but changing AF point when trying to catch the bird does not work either in my experience. Much too slow. I think we'll have to stick to good old manual. Hmm. Jaap--have you seen the D3's / D700's 51-point dynamic AF system? It's "creepy" and cool to see the focus points follow the subject as it moves across the FOV, and for a first-gen thing it's uncannily good. No changing AF points necessary. I don't think it would meet Doug's needs yet, but technology improves all the time. And you know--as a DMR and M8 user--I have nothing whatsoever against manual focus. But there's some interesting stuff coming, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 20, 2009 Share #38 Posted May 20, 2009 I don't doubt. If the LFI article claims that manual focus cannot beat the S2 AF, things are certainly getting to be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted May 21, 2009 Share #39 Posted May 21, 2009 I still believe that a non-AF digital R10 would be the way forward. It would set Leica apart from the competition instead of competing on their own terms which is an uphill battle. I still occasionally use my FM2 of F3 with non-AF nikkor lenses & the (mental) ergonomics is quite close to a rangefinder or any other film based camera that comes to mind. Aperture, shutter speed, focus, frame - click. I don't want or need AF even if it would focus more accurately. There may be a market for R10M("cheap") and R10AF(more expensive) for people that feel differently about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted May 21, 2009 Share #40 Posted May 21, 2009 "I don't want or need AF even if it would focus more accurately" Some photographers need it, some don't and many think they need it... They've tried manual with the R8 - an excellent tool, a real leap forward for "slow", demaning 35mm-SLRs - and people hated it because of the looks and many ignored it because it had no AF. They have to integrate AF into every SLR, if it makes sense or not - as long is it doesn't compromise MF (mechanics/excuse for bad viewfinder), I'm fine with it. They have developed it already for the S-System, so the body-electronics won't be too expensive for the R10 anyway - I think the optics for a bright, large viewfinder are more expensive than AF-metering... It's propably the opposite, when they can spread S-technology over more products, they become cheaper because they can buy more sensors, motors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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