US Army Signal Corps Leica

[DavGreg]

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Back in the 1980's I was an 84B (Still Photographer) in the Army based at VII Corps HQ in Stuttgart and came across something interesting. Maybe some serious Leicaphiles can solve the mystery.

 

A couple of our people were cleaning out an old storage area that was to be inventoried and emptied for a renovation and came upon a couple of Leica rangefinder models that were engraved with the crossed flags of the US Army Signal Corps and all the rest that would ID them as Government property. As I recall, they also had a brown leather case engraved with the SIgnal Corps insignia, a flash, extra lenses and a Brown leather case with similar markings. I cannot recall any details about what type the lenses and flash were, but it was obvious that it was a kit- not just a collection of issued items.

 

As luck would have it, the guys that came upon them were Leica owners, having bought M4Ps with their hard earned money. The Officer and NCO in charge could find no record on file anywhere reflecting them in inventory and told the guys to take them or otherwise make them disappear. Needless to say, a couple of Specialists (E4), added a new Leica to their collection.

 

Here's where the mystery lies. The NCO in charge back then was a Master Sergeant with well over 20 years as a photographer and had never seen or heard of such a thing. At the time the Army's standard issue camera was the Canon F2 although some old Nikon F1's and Mamiya 645's with the prism finder were also in the system. Going way back, the Army used the old Speed Graphic in Korea and WW II. After that it seems mostly Nikon and Canon stuff was used.

 

Does anybody have well sourced knowledge about the kits, when they were issued and a guesstimate at what their collector's value would be today.

 

Thanks

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[luigi bertolotti]

I'm not an expert on Military Leicas... but do you at least remember if they were Screw Mount or Bayonet Mount models ? And can you remember if the "US" engravings included a "contract number" ?

[johnastovall]

See past thread here on subject.

[bkyoung]

Here's where the mystery lies. The NCO in charge back then was a Master Sergeant with well over 20 years as a photographer and had never seen or heard of such a thing. At the time the Army's standard issue camera was the Canon F2 although some old Nikon F1's and Mamiya 645's with the prism finder were also in the system. Going way back, the Army used the old Speed Graphic in Korea and WW II. After that it seems mostly Nikon and Canon stuff was used.

 

Does anybody have well sourced knowledge about the kits, when they were issued and a guesstimate at what their collector's value would be today.

 

Thanks

 

I do know that the photographer who shot the My Lai pictures in Vietnam was carrying Army-issued Leicas and personal Nikons. I interviewed him for a magazine story recently.

 

He used the Leicas (and Amry film) to shoot more innocent-looking official pictures of the action, while shooting the gruesome photos we all know of the massacre with his personal film and Nikons.

[LeicaTom]

The US Army used Leica`s from May 1945 up till the early 1970`s!

 

I have personal records of 1945 IIIC K`s used by the Signal Corps till the late 1950`s

 

Leitz issued speical cold proofed versions of the IIIF to the US Army in 1954 and standard issue Screw Mount IIIF`s up until about 1960 (I have never seen a US Army IIIG?)

 

.......and M Series Leica`s were issued up until right after Vietnam.

 

Wish I knew which version the cameras were that you or the soliders had found, maybe US Army IIIF`s? ~ I know that the US Army Military Police Battalion that I worked with had Screw Mount IIIF`s in action STILL in the early 1980`s in Germany!

 

A well intact US Army IIIF kit would bring $2,000 to $3,000 easy, if it had documents and the M Series from the Vietnam era *M2R* and the KE 7A series bring much higher $$$$$

 

I knew a civilian journalist who dropped a US Army "Olive" M4 (He told me it was the now very rare M4M) out of a Chopper in 1972 over there, it`s somewhere sunmerged and rusted away in a rice patty in South Vietnam.......

 

Tom

Edited May 3, 2009 by LeicaTom_old

[johnastovall]

Not the Army but the Navy was using both M-mount and Leicaflexs until the late Seventies.

[DDM]

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Military Leicas = dirty cameras

[johnastovall]

Military Leicas = dirty cameras

 

I'm sure DAG or Sherry K. can clean one right up.

[LeicaTom]

I'm sure DAG or Sherry K. can clean one right up.

 

John,

 

Speaking of having a dirty Leica, Youxin Ye, did a CLA on my 43' and it`s working nicely, he`s also very good with CLA`s.

 

But my next IIIC K Grey (a 1945 one) is going to DAG for CLA, I`ll post a shot of it here, when it`s back

 

Tom

Edited May 7, 2009 by LeicaTom_old

[Todd Adank]

My first visit to this site and the first thing I read is 84 b - stuttgart 7th corp. 1980s and military leica kits. Its just too much.

 

I was stationed at kelly barracks as a 84b(p) from Nov. 1982 to Nov. 84 so I,m not sure if we know each other. I was very busy back then lost track of lots of names over the years.

I still have a ks-15 (4) kit with the case. m2 body ( no markings ), 35mm summicron, 50mm dual range summicron, 135mm f2.8 elmerit lots of filters. all of it beat to death but still working. I used the kit for two years and had a hell of a time getting to p.d.o. fast enough to buy it. I payed $ 65.00 for the whole shebang, I know I know but believe me I have lost track of the money spent on leica. smiling the whole time to boot life's too long to buy crap.

I don't know of any leica being marked with signal flags m2 and m3 were not marked except by some supply Sgt with an engraver but I have seen my with top plate marked by leica. Hey you don't by the way know a E4 by the name Gerry Brown. I hope this helps take care.

[Dáithí]

My dad was Signal Corp photographer during WW II spending the entire war in Boston at HQ 1st Service Command. He was 42 when drafted and they did not send guys in their 40's overseas. Where he worked they had Speed Graphic and Argus C2 cameras but he did most of his work with his personal Leica II (D) with f2.5 Hektor (I still have it)

 

Sometimes he had to go down to the Induction Center in South Boston and there he used a Leica 250 which he loved.

 

My wife was USN Public Information officer and I know in the 70's and 80's the PM's in her reserve unit had access to older Navy Leica's but most of the reserve PM's were professional photographers in civilian life and preferred their own cameras that they were used to, mostly Nikon F, F2 as I recall.

[mbaginy]

While stationed in Schweinfurt, Germany from 1976 to 1980 I worked a while in the PAO. I met the community photographer who used an M3 dual-stroke with dual range 50/2 plus 135/2.8. These were military issue but I can't recall any engravings. In fact, I used that M3 once when photographing a High School? football game at Patch Barracks (Stuttgart) in the late 70s.

 

During a PDO sale at Hanau PDO, there were quite a few M2s(?) and M3s for sale. Though these were "dirt cheap" even then, I was a lowly SP4 and low on cash.

[Krauklis]

Military Leicas = dirty cameras

 

That sounds rather childish, doesn't it.

 

-krauklis (I do not collect militaria, no matter what)

[DDM]

@Krauklis

 

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-sammler-historica/110470-iiic-k.html#post1167210

[Krauklis]

I wasn't sure whether it was meant the way it sounded. Well, it obviously wasn't.

-krauklis