James Mack Posted April 27, 2009 Share #1 Posted April 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) A forum for Leica usually expresses the good points of Leica products, but I must now express my disappointment with my M8 and it's focusing problems. At first I thought it was my focusing technique until I gave it to a college to trial. He frequently produced unsharp images with the 75mm lens. So off to Leica it goes (a holiday in Germany for 3 months) for repair along with the shutter that jammed. Upon return the focusing problem was no different, off to Leica again, this time they were much speedier, only 5 weeks. Thought my focusing technique was still faulty, but no, the M8 was still back focusing, so off to Germany for a third visit. I only wish I could get the frequent flyer points the camera has done. Am I the only one with such bad luck or is this camera a bad investment ? I hope not, because if it works it can be a joy to use. Only one apology from Leica, also disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 Hi James Mack, Take a look here M8 repair for back focus. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted April 27, 2009 Share #2 Posted April 27, 2009 James its Leica. You will be lucky if they get it right in four goes. Id say welcome to the forum and post some images but .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted April 27, 2009 Share #3 Posted April 27, 2009 No, you are not the only one to have these problems. The issue is that the focussing aid Leica provide - the rangefinder - is just that, an aid, and you're relying on the camera and lenses to be properly aligned so that when the rangefinder says it's in focus, it really is. Further, to ensure lens interchangeability, the camera and lenses need to be aligned to separate independent standards, not to each other. This contrasts with a DSLR where there's much less (but not zero) dependence on the lens and body calibration will do it. A Live View camera is even better because there you are sensing actual focus from the sensor. The rangefinder is being streched by the more critical demands of digital and is under particular stress when you are shooting with a longer lens, wide open and close up. Focussing close up and wide open with the Noctilux, 75mm Summilux and 90mm Summicron is somewhat hit and miss. First, check your eyesight and any correction, it's important you can see the rangefinder patch really clearly. The Leica optics present it at an apparent distance of about 2 metres. Then, consider using a focus magnifier to give you a better view of the rangefinder patch. As for Leica service, they are now asking for feedback when equipment comes back from service but getting the focussing right can be a trial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted April 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted April 28, 2009 A forum for Leica usually expresses the good points of Leica products, but I must now express my disappointment with my M8 and it's focusing problems. At first I thought it was my focusing technique until I gave it to a college to trial. He frequently produced unsharp images with the 75mm lens. So off to Leica it goes (a holiday in Germany for 3 months) for repair along with the shutter that jammed. Upon return the focusing problem was no different, off to Leica again, this time they were much speedier, only 5 weeks. Thought my focusing technique was still faulty, but no, the M8 was still back focusing, so off to Germany for a third visit. I only wish I could get the frequent flyer points the camera has done. Am I the only one with such bad luck or is this camera a bad investment ? I hope not, because if it works it can be a joy to use. Only one apology from Leica, also disappointing. Did you send the lens as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted April 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted April 28, 2009 James - I'm moving this thread to the M8 sub-forum where you will get more people with M8 exp[erience viewing your thread. I'll leave a link on the Customer forum section to direct people there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 28, 2009 Share #6 Posted April 28, 2009 It may be, but it is by no means certain that it is the M8 misfocussing. The protocol is as follows 1. Make sure the rangefinder is optimally adjusted to your eye. That means that you choose the diopter that allows you to see the framelines and the RF patch totally sharp without effort. You can find the right strength by using the try-out lenses of your local optician, or in a pinch throw-away reading glasses. It may be that the image itself is slightly unsharp with the correct lens, as long as the RF patch is perfect 2. If the problem persists, try the body with different lenses This will show whether the body or the lens is off and must be adjusted. Given that the camera has been to Solms, my money is on the lens. 3. If the problem persists, it may be that camera and lens are on opposite ends of the tolerance range. In that case you will have to send in both the lens and the body for the lens to be adjusted to the body. 4. In the most extreme case, which is fortunately rare, you may have to send in all lenses and the body. If you don't like the long turnaround, this work can easily be done by an independent Leica repair service, like in the USA DAG or Sherry Krauter, in the UK by CRR and in Europe by Will van Manen. The costs are normally modest. A magnifier may help, but only if everything else is correct. Normally you should be able to focus any lens confidently without magnifier. Using the magnifier in a system that is not adjusted correctly will only result in magnifying the error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted April 28, 2009 Share #7 Posted April 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) James, for what is worth here is my experience. When I bought my M8 a little more than a year ago, i soon found difficult to focus with the lenses I had that were a 35, a 28 and a 50. I thought it could be the lenses that had focus shift hence with a little effort i could make it work. This untill I've got a 90. Then I noticed I couldn't focus with it at all. I focused on an object and the camera focused several meters in front of it. Went to a Leica dealer and asked if my lenses could be fixed. He showed me that my lenses were all perfect by mounting them on some new M8 and M8.2. He told me my rangefinder was vertically misalligned. My camera went to Solms and after two weeks came back perfectly working. It still is and i have no more problems. I suggest you to look if the two images in the rangefinder windows are perfectly alligned on the vertical axis when you focus. If they are not you have my same problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted April 28, 2009 Share #8 Posted April 28, 2009 James, I forgot to say that when the M8 came back, even those lenses that backfocused before, now behave properly (except for those that are wellknown for focus shift i.e. some Voigtlander lenses, etc.). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted April 28, 2009 Share #9 Posted April 28, 2009 I've been in the worst case scenario depicted by jaapv : I've sent all lenses and M8 to Don Goldberg, who masterfully adjusted everything spot on. Then I've added the 75 Lux to the racing - and it still is backfocusing fully open, plus a bit of focus shift after Don adjusted it. Granted, this one has been especially tricky. Question : Leica tells me they could totally avoid focus shift on that lens. Is that true, or just a technician's brag ? It's such a hassle to get UPS and their ilk to properly export and re-import to/from the US I wonder if this time I won't do the same as Enrico : Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted April 29, 2009 Share #10 Posted April 29, 2009 I was having an issue with what I thought was my 50 Lux ASPH. If I focused on something at a distance, wide open or even at 2.8 the focus would hit behind the subject. if I focused on something close, it was spot on. I did critical testing of all my lenses and even my 28 and 75 were back focusing when shooting a distant subject. I searched this forum and found a DYI fix. I adjusted the roller in the lens mount under the red dot ever so slightly to the right and then checked my focus. It was better but not perfect. I went back in, moved it ever so slightly again and I am now about 97% spot on at far distances. I may try to get it to 100% tomorrow but it is so much better now. Took 20 minutes total and now my lenses focus almost perfectly. The close focus was not even messed with as I believe that is a different adjustment under the red dot?? Anyway, its worth a try and I figured I would try it myself and if it did not work I could send it in to Leica. Just did it today as I have a concert/event to shoot Sunday so I was desperate. Good luck with your back focus problem! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted April 29, 2009 Share #11 Posted April 29, 2009 I've been there last year, stevem7. No avail when adjusting 6 lenses in all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederics Posted April 29, 2009 Share #12 Posted April 29, 2009 Yes, when i got my m8 all my lenses frontfocused or backfocused. Don said it was the lenses & it's still not right for the two lenses I sent in. I've sort of given up on the the 75 1.4 & longer lenses for now, maybe forever. I would just like to get a 35 & 50 that will provide consistent results. I will try some new lenses next to see if there is an improvement. my older lenses are been so so quality wise on the M8. good luck. maybe with a little more patience things will sort out:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted April 29, 2009 Share #13 Posted April 29, 2009 I got my M8 to 100% today - It is now awesome and gives me perfect results with all three lenses, close or far focus. I posted the whole thing over at dpreview with samples but that roller adjust did the trick for me. It's like I have a new camera now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 30, 2009 Share #14 Posted April 30, 2009 I got my M8 to 100% today - It is now awesome and gives me perfect results with all three lenses, close or far focus. I posted the whole thing over at dpreview with samples but that roller adjust did the trick for me. It's like I have a new camera now. Hey Steve--when the camera (not the lenses) can't acheive infinity, the roller fix is truly a little miracle I only have one lens that needs tweaking at this point--a 75 Lux. Leica in Solms did a fabulous job with my Nocti, to the point where it's sharp wide open with the smallest amount of apparent shift possible as you stop down round f2.8 (a common condition on the Nocti), and then sharp again by f4. Perfect for that lens. They also tweaked my recent (but used) 50 Lux ASPH to perfection as well on the m8 (it also works wonders on film). So I think there are lots of used lenses that are--for one reason or another--just out of adjustment tolerance. That shows up quickly on the M8, so I always factor the price of a CLA when I buy a used lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted April 30, 2009 Share #15 Posted April 30, 2009 I used to have an M8 which I bought with a 35mm f2 (both new) to find out that it could not focus perfectly. Sent the lens to Leica after their local representative confirm that the lens had a focus problem. During 2 months I used another 35mm f2 that Leica provided as temporary replacement. Perfect. Then my lens return from Leica - also perfect. Then I bough a 90mm f2. Also could not focus correctly. Sent it to Leica. The lens stayed there for ~4 months. Tired of this lack of quality - sold the Leica and bought a Nikon D3 and lenses. Super camera, no problems whatsoever, the best image quality I haver seen. I still miss the Leica, though. Its not the same thing to use a BIG SLR - the weight and size requires much more effort, its less comfortable. To have something lighter I decided to buy a mechanical Nikon SLR - the FM3a. Great camera. But I still miss the Leica!!! I even bought a Luigi half case made specially for the FM3a The question is - do film Leicas also have all these focus problems? I would say yes but do not see any one complaining about problems with M7s or MPs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederics Posted April 30, 2009 Share #16 Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name= The question is - do film Leicas also have all these focus problems? I would say yes but do not see any one complaining about problems with M7s or MPs...[/quote] Hi, I've used M2, M4, M3 & 2 M6's and never had focus problems with any of my lenses over the years, including the 75 1.4 It's a digital thing Best, Frederic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted April 30, 2009 Share #17 Posted April 30, 2009 The question is - do film Leicas also have all these focus problems? For me the answer would be no both for the film Leicas and the M8 but they all have a learning curve. On the M8 the learning curve is shorter as you can correct, and tweak, and get to know how the equipment works more easily than on film. Film gives you more leeway so its pretty much a draw. I really love my FM2 & F3 + some Nikkors, but optically they are on a different continent compared to a M2 + 35/2.8 summaron. Compared to a modern Leica ASPH lens ........ game over. The M2 light metering sytem is a lot worse however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted May 1, 2009 Share #18 Posted May 1, 2009 For me the answer would be no both for the film Leicas and the M8 but they all have a learning curve. On the M8 the learning curve is shorter as you can correct, and tweak, and get to know how the equipment works more easily than on film. Film gives you more leeway so its pretty much a draw. I really love my FM2 & F3 + some Nikkors, but optically they are on a different continent compared to a M2 + 35/2.8 summaron. Compared to a modern Leica ASPH lens ........ game over. The M2 light metering sytem is a lot worse however. But many M8's do have focus issues and it is not just a learning curve. My third M8 that I bought two months ago was out of adjustment from the day I opened it. Just yesterday i was able to get it to 100% accurate focus with all of my lenses. So, if you have an M8 that is just not focusing correctly it could be an issue with the M8. I thought at first it was a lens but it turned out to be the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2009 Share #19 Posted May 1, 2009 The question is - do film Leicas also have all these focus problems? I would say yes but do not see any one complaining about problems with M7s or MPs... Basically yes- they have but 1. Film has a thickness that covers many sins, so you are less likely to notice. A sensor is merciless.It gives a "steeper" DOF than film (again that thickness, and refraction etc. inside the emulsion layer) making the plane of focus less defined. 2. Instant chimping gives instant feedback. When printing film you may well have forgotten where you focussed exactly in the first place 3. 100% on the monitor is an immense enlargement. Few of us used to enlarge our film shots to billboard size - and examine them from 25 cm distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted May 1, 2009 Share #20 Posted May 1, 2009 Well if James ever comes back I can give him an Australian number for a guy at least worth speaking to if he decides to let Leica off the hook. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.