geotrupede Posted March 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted March 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hy everybody, I am a relatively new LEICA user. I bought a M6 Classic a couple of month ago. Wonderful camera, magic feel... Unfortunately the viewfinder lost the vertical alignement almost immediately, so I went back to the shop for repair. As I am taking picture regularly I could not stand the idea of being with no camera for 2-4 weeks. I therefore asked if it was possible to swap camera and upgrade to another model. By paying the difference I got a M6 TTL. Very nice camera too. However there is a 'but'. To me the newer, minter, camera shutter is noisier. I would even say significantly. I realised this after I left the shop (I wish I checked better...) so no way I am going back. I could but let's see what you say. Is it something that can be fixed with maintenance? Somehow the mechanics of the shutter need revision regularly? Like an automatic watch? Camera feels really new, so I would say is not broken or used too much. Just the shutter is very metallic and noisy. May be some oil will do? Also the back door has a less solid feel, but I guess this is a difference in built quality. To me it seems like M6 was better than M6 TTL. Is it the case? Second question is, where to buy in London the following tools: LEICA viewfinder adjustment tool LEICA red small stickers So next time I'll do myself. Thanks to everybody. G Leica M6 - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Hi geotrupede, Take a look here M6 TTL shutternoise. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
richam Posted March 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted March 16, 2009 I just checked my M6TTL against my MP and M4-2. The shutter sounds seem the same. If you have one that was on the shelf for a while, I'd try exercising it before doing anything else. It may work out the "new" stiffness to cock and release the shutter 10-20 times at each shutter speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted March 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted March 16, 2009 One point that might be worth making: the shutter sound will be louder (at least a little) and somewhat different in tone if you are checking it WITHOUT film loaded. Beyond that, I would say there is some difference between the mechanicasl shutter of the M6/M6ttl and the electronically fired shutter of the M7, but I have never noticed a particular difference between M6s. As regards the flip-up back plate, others may be able to comment on the relative build qulaities between M6s and the later TTLs but I don't thik there are any that would cause that such a structural difference to be apparent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardT Posted March 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted March 16, 2009 Hello G, I just checked my M6 vs my M6TTL. The TTL shutter is definitely louder. It has a somewhat hollow "thunk" sound to it versus the softer more click sound of the original M6. I tested both at 1/125 sec. Both cameras are in like new condition and were purchased as new old stock about 3 years ago. The M6TTL is the black paint LHSA version. As a point of reference my M6TTL and MP sound identical. The M6 sounds closer to my M2 and M3 but is slightly different, like it's damped a little. Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maddoc2003jp Posted March 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted March 16, 2009 My - recently serviced - M4-P has a whisper quiet shutter, my M6 or - still factory sealed - M2 are noticeable louder. That louder that while shooting in the streets some people realizing the M6's shutter noise turn their heads when I shot form the hip ... Service helps ! The tool needed for self-adjusting of the vertical RF alignment has a special shape and cost ~ $180 (the last time I checked Ebay), better to leave it to some trained servicemen having the tools (... and knowledge) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 16, 2009 Share #6 Posted March 16, 2009 Shutter sound on all mechanical M cameras, M3 to M7 and MP, depends a lot on how the shutter and especially the shutter curtain brakes are adjusted. I once had an M7 that was extremely quiet, while the M7 I now have is noticeably louder. My M3, freshly serviced by Leica, is buttery smooth. You may want to check whether it is the opening or the closing of the shutter that generates more noise. Set your camera to 'B', wind and press and release the trigger button. On my M7, the closing of the shutter is quite a bit louder, on my M3 the sound is about the same on opening and closing. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted March 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) And, whatever you do, NEVER put oil on the shutter! Or anyway else on the camera for that matter.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted March 16, 2009 I will not put oil in the camera, you bet... :-) But I tried to take few shots at every conceivable shutter speed, now seems better. About B setting, I can definitely say it's louder when the second curtain arrives. May be the silk curtain tension is too much or the camera is too 'unused'. Time will tell. I am getting used to it, but I swear the other M6 was just magic... almost like a whisper! Anyway there a worst things in life :-) Thank you so much for all hints and friendly emails! If the issue goes I will let you know. Ciao + Thanks G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted March 24, 2009 wizard, I did as you mentioned. It is the second curtain which is louder. Now, what is next? Is is something that can be serviced? Thanks G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted March 24, 2009 Share #10 Posted March 24, 2009 whisper quiet does not mean the shutter is adjusted right. It could have been quiet as heck precisely because it was OUT of adjustment. I have a few MPs and they all sound slightly different. It is noticeable but not terribly relevant in real world shooting. Outside, I never notice the difference, but can tell in a silent room. You could get it checked over before committing to a CLA. If the negs turn out OK and the speeds seem right on and there are no sounds indicative of thiings tearing themselves apart, I woul recommend using it for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted March 24, 2009 Share #11 Posted March 24, 2009 wizard,I did as you mentioned. It is the second curtain which is louder. Now, what is next? Is is something that can be serviced? Thanks G Well, as I said, my M7 behaves the same since it was brand new, so it is probably within spec. You could ask a Leica service person to check whether the shutter curtain brakes are set correctly, it is most likely a question of how those brakes are adjusted. However, if your exposures are ok and if there is no sign of a malfunctioning shutter, then I would not touch the shutter, but live with it. It may change over time anyway. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted March 24, 2009 Share #12 Posted March 24, 2009 I have 2 M6's and they both seem very quiet to me. As was mentioned earlier do not put any oil anywhere inside any part of the camera. It could be something to do with viscosity and different oils react differently so try and find out about it's service history and if you bought it from a authorised dealer you should have some sort of guarantee so you could ask them to send it back to Leica service to be checked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted March 24, 2009 ...final update on the case. I went to another shop, trade the camera in (as I did not like so much the .85) and got another one (with the .72). Again compared the two at the shop and the sound is the same (loud). So to conclude it looks like either the old M6 was silent by design or the decades of use made the shutter silencer, which is a nice feature of used cameras. Exposure were correct, but interestingly when I gave the camera back, the person at the shop tested and tested over the shutter like if something were wrong... after all, may be, it was. We will never know. Either way, my 'final' camera is not as silent as that M6 but works. Thanks for all your help! Giulio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardT Posted March 25, 2009 Share #14 Posted March 25, 2009 ...final update on the case. I went to another shop, trade the camera in (as I did not like so much the .85) and got another one (with the .72). Again compared the two at the shop and the sound is the same (loud). So to conclude it looks like either the old M6 was silent by design or the decades of use made the shutter silencer, which is a nice feature of used cameras. Exposure were correct, but interestingly when I gave the camera back, the person at the shop tested and tested over the shutter like if something were wrong... after all, may be, it was. We will never know. Either way, my 'final' camera is not as silent as that M6 but works. Thanks for all your help! Giulio Giulio, Read my post again. The two M6's I tested are nearly new. One has never been used at all. The TTL version has a louder shutter. Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted March 25, 2009 Len, that's it. I should have picked that up earlier, but you never know until you try yourself. Now, the question is: what about the legendary silentness of Leica? True for anything before M6TTL... Anyway, as I said not a big deal, unless you are in a theatre :-) G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardT Posted March 26, 2009 Share #16 Posted March 26, 2009 Hi Giulio, I think the quietness of the Leica shutters is a relative thing. I have 13 different Leica body models and most of them sound different from each other. I have two each of the Model III, M3, M6 and MP And two M8's which is a different category. I find the screw mount bodies prior to the IIIf to be a little loud. The IIIf is very quiet. The M2, M3 and M4 are also very quiet and to me sound the same. The M6 is quiet where the M5, M6TTL, M7 and MP sound a little louder to me. In the newer bodies I think the difference in sound is due to different braking adjustments. To me every Leica rangefinder camera has a quiet shutter. Now the relative thing. Listen to any SLR and the sound is much louder then any of the Leicas. Listen to a Hasselblad and the windows shake. The quietist camera I own is the Mamiya 7II which uses a leaf shutter. Regards, Len Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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