leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Share #1 Posted March 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry to be bias but is it like the climate change, it becomes worst and worst year after year but there is a trend from a few to reverse it.Thats how I feel as an analog purist.I will never give up as an artist,as a leica lover the erosion of film as a medium to express images thru my wonderful old M2 and M3. But judging by the amount of hits for the digital forum and M8 forums, by the hundreds of thousand compared to us discussing our m2s m3s m4s,m6, leicaflex etc we look like antartica on the brink of extinction. But there is an invariables theory where climate change is related to the economic downturn ;so used camera shops are now filled with consignments of old rangefinders and leicas coming out of their hidden cobwebs and new interest from photographers to switch back with new film scanners coming out.Since nothing can compare film as a better archival source than digital. A hard drive can collapse and cd disk has a limited life span.But film can last for keeps ( as long as minimally stored ) Thats one aspect. The other is in the gallery circuits, film and photo enlarging thru paper is still aestheically ahead and respected and better valued than the quick digital printing aided by photo shops.One is considered an impatient yuppy artist with less time to understand art if you show digital photos. Digital are for the impatient ones , they are not the type to take time to to ponder on the paintings at the Louvre and I am afraid they are the ones supporting for the Leica makers to pay the rent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Hi leica888, Take a look here Digital and M8 forums dwarfs the Analogs. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 8, 2009 Share #2 Posted March 8, 2009 Never lost a digital image yet. I wish I could say the same for my old Agfa slides, which have turned a kind of yellowish-brown.... At least a digital image can be copied losslessly ad infinitum. This kind of spurious claims of superiority do film a great disservice. It is a beautiful medium, but artistic merit has nothing to do with technical specifications, especially if there is not a chance of "winning". I love driving classic cars, but I would not dream of making myself ridiculous by claiming they are better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 8, 2009 Share #3 Posted March 8, 2009 I don't think your arguments have been thought out or are based on anything than your own biased opinions leica888. I'm a fan of film, do 80% of my photography with film, but I don't think any less of someone who shoots digital, its a different approach, different medium, no better no worse. As for forum hits, it's inevitable that the digital forums will attract more interest given the continuing development of the digital medium and products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted March 8, 2009 Share #4 Posted March 8, 2009 Last year I copied pictures CDs onto DVDs -- about 30 CDs onto one DVD. But I was surprised that a few CDs (about two or three) failed to open. So these digital file have gone. Fortunately they were all scans of slides, which I still have. I've got slides going back to the '80s, my parents' old ones form the '50s, and a friend still has his from the '40s. Longevity is a serious concern. That is in no way anti-digital, just a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 8, 2009 Share #5 Posted March 8, 2009 Digital are for the impatient ones , they are not the type to take time to to ponder on the paintings at the Louvre … Oh I dont know about that! It does not apply to me. I think if you still take the time to print your best images it makes a difference to your approach but I must admit that I do now prefer Photoshop to the wet darkroom, it is so flexible - although I only use it for tweaking. Recently I have done a lot of slide film scannning for other people and I must admit that the grain is beginning to annoy me. Many regard it as a creative part of the image but to me it often simply 'gets in the way'. There will always be a place for film but it will become much more of a creative niche, if I can call it that. Every now and then I get a mild urge to go back to film because it seems to be an actual 'photograph' as opposed to bits stored on a magnetic disk. On the plus side for the M8 it can give one a 'film like' experience in the actual taking of the photographs. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted March 8, 2009 did not mean to offend but in 2006 Time magazine made a cover of the M3 as the winner of the best photos besting all;and the best camera of all times besting the likes of the Ipod generation gadgets.Maybe digital is just a gadget under the control of consumers trappings of obsolecense. Modesty aside I have done 7 full length Indie films excited about the low cost advent of the great digital age.Now a lot of my colleagues are going back to film,though longer in gestation and harder to look for supporters with a prospect of a film every 5 years.Thats ok but I can tell you; the feel and resolutions is incomparable and the joy too.With digital I have to buy numerous terrabyte Hardisks constantly just so it can be stored after a set of finished film was obliterated by a disk crash.I have had to go thru the tape reload again with extensive editing .I have had to make 3 reserve terabyte HDs per film; recopying them every year in a newer Hds. With digital one is incline to a 100 to 1 ratio because you know you are not spending film but bytes; so there is a certain BLAH in the process.It takes longer to edit as you can have hundred takes to choose from for a single shot.There is the impulsiveness in the medium that is a thin line betweenbeing serious and just being playful. Stills and photography are the same;you will be at the mercy USB storage which is never secure and you keep shooting to eternity loosing the other observations one needs and the sensibilities that goes with it.It is vehemently a very different culture..With digital you are like window shopping just clicking it out without a soul...and therefore loosing a soul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted March 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) this is the time magazine M3 award in 2006 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/78795-digital-and-m8-forums-dwarfs-the-analogs/?do=findComment&comment=833167'>More sharing options...
petewayne Posted March 8, 2009 Share #8 Posted March 8, 2009 I think the point is that both mediums have their supporters and that maybe these days digital is more accessible to the majority of people. Leica has developed a lineage within film and is establishing and building upon this with digital offerings. Personally, I shoot both film (medium and large format) and digital (M8, 1DS2, Mamiya ZD) and sometimes the most "film-like" image is the one from the M8. However, I don't think film is becoming extinct rather it is finding a new home amongst photographers new and old who want a different medium to work with much like an artist having a number of different forms to use when painting. At the end of the day the image is the sum of the tool and the imagination of the photographer......there are many stunning images developed on film; equally there are many that are derived from digital and both are across the spectrum of cameras ranging from the cheapest to the most expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted March 8, 2009 Going back to the metaphor of climate change where global(digital)warning is melting our celliuloid away day by day and causing havoc to our M- viroment only makes us griM-piece members to be more vigilant always and have a M-yn set against digital overloads .Hope these has been M-eaning full M-essageThats 5 Ms or an M5 for us with 5 framelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted March 8, 2009 (the most "film-like" image is the one from the M8) In video there is the RED camera very close to film like quality thats why they are more expensive than the film cameras both for stills and for film,as the M8 is.The point is are we mimicking the real thing when you can just easily have it at less the cost. I dont have anything against digital as long as we lump(en) it amongst the category of the cellphones who also have megapixel cameras.This culture is the culture of consumption and communication. in 10 years time I wont be suprise if Leica digital division adds a wifi option with live TV too on its M9 or M10 series. Now do you honestly feel this is photography ? It will go where the mass market goes.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 8, 2009 Share #11 Posted March 8, 2009 … Now do you honestly feel this is photography ? It will go where the mass market goes.... Well it depends how each one of us uses it. You can still do 'traditional' photography with the new tools. There will be niche for film and a niche for good and simple digital cameras like the M8, although I do notice that even the M8 is having 'features' added to it - and many people want this. Digital storage is a problem and 99% of the photographs taken today will not survive, either discarded intentionally or lost through accident or bad management of storage. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentX Posted March 8, 2009 Share #12 Posted March 8, 2009 Hmmm, I said the same thing when those new-fangled dry plates threatened to destroy the true art of collodion-coating and sensitizing a real negative. This coming from a guy who's worked with many 19th-century processes himself, mind you...but photography serves many needs other than your own. If film's your personal thing, keep doing it that way. But your [small-format!] film was once new tech and considered unworthy. Edit: By the way, we're on the Internet--is it any surprise that those inclined to use/talk about digital equipment are posting on computers?? Everyone else is in the darkroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted March 8, 2009 thats precisely the irony, we are in the darkroom too even in the internet as 'we are processing' which is precisely the purpose of this thread.How many of us caught the eye when we saw Digital and M8 as the title.We are all mesmerize by the technology and all I am saying is suddenly we wake up at the pitfalls it offers.If archival is not our concern then it must be a gadget and not photography just like an Ipod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted March 8, 2009 Share #14 Posted March 8, 2009 you're right... film is a nice backup media. I plan to burn my M8 files to film as soon as the technology becomes available. Straight onto 50iso 120 rollfilm should do nicely. Seriously - you think archival permanence is the defining criterion of 'photography' over 'gadget'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted March 8, 2009 archival is one aspect pf serious photography; gadgets is a figure of speech implying the culture of consumption fuelled by an industry with a culture of profit; its the realization that when one subjegate oneself to that kind of gadgetry one is prepare to aquire all visual memories at a mesmerizing speed then loosing it at an instant.Thats the price you pay for digital technology.One is not allowed to retain permanence; one is given the universe at an instant while de-sensitizing you in the process.And when you are alienated you serve the purpose of technology. In the photography as I have understood in the past, there is a relation between the object and subject and the process of unfying them as you take a picture is the ideal form that one strives for...and thats where aesthetics comes in.None of that can ever be present in digital world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted March 8, 2009 Share #16 Posted March 8, 2009 archival is one aspect pf serious photography; gadgets is a figure of speech implying the culture of consumption fuelled by an industry with a culture of profit; its the realization that when one subjegate oneself to that kind of gadgetry one is prepare to aquire all visual memories at a mesmerizing speed then loosing it at an instant.Thats the price you pay for digital technology.One is not allowed to retain permanence; one is given the universe at an instant while de-sensitizing you in the process.And when you are alienated you serve the purpose of technology. In the photography as I have understood in the past, there is a relation between the object and subject and the process of unfying them as you take a picture is the ideal form that one strives for...and thats where aesthetics comes in.None of that can ever be present in digital world. This statement implies that digital will become our master and will turn our brain (or what's left of it) to mush and simultaneously proves that this is not an exclusive property of digital. Sad really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted March 8, 2009 Share #17 Posted March 8, 2009 The amount of images made by mediocre photographers dwarfs the brilliant ones, but I choose to look at the brilliant ones. Just because some statistic says something is more popular in numbers does not mean it is better or replacing the other. And you need to consider the method of how you are getting this info in the first place: The lousy digital internet, the thing that is killing everything with mediocrity en' masse. I have shot digital for over 14 years, love it but...it is *so* not the second coming people make it out to be. I get a lot out of it, but I plan to get more out of film again because it is different, it still sells and I damn well like it. You have to realize one of the reasons *why* digital is so popular. It is allowing photo enthusiasts who were never any good at shooting film to chimp their way through photography, so this is new for them. They *appear* to be technically better so it is all the rage. "Nice Capture"...:-) Participate in the forum that matters to you, pass on the one does not. It's as simple as that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 8, 2009 Share #18 Posted March 8, 2009 The picture is the important part, not the medium. There are ways to reliably store both types of media for as long as required if one is prepared to spend the time and money so longevity becomes irrelevant. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2009 Share #19 Posted March 8, 2009 In the photography as I have understood in the past, there is a relation between the object and subject and the process of unfying them as you take a picture is the ideal form that one strives for...and thats where aesthetics comes in.None of that can ever be present in digital world. You've lost me completely here. It seems you are suggesting that art is defined by the medium. I always thought the artist is the key factor and the means of arriving at the result utterly unimportant. Electrons or chemicals? Who cares? One is as artificial as the other.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica888 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted March 9, 2009 What I said and mean was 'What one strives for' and Art is the optimum.Nevertheless its where mediocrities can even thrive including the the 'artificial' comment you just mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.