marknorton Posted February 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted February 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica has published its results for Q3 (ending 31 Dec 2008). Sales for the quarter are up slightly (€41m from €38m - post-Photokina effect) but sales for the first 3 quarters together are down from €127m to €93m. In the quarter, Leica spent €1.8m on R&D, down from €3.8m in the previous year. Employees are up from 1003 to 1073. Their current assets are down - less cash, more inventory on hand, more outstanding debtors. For 2008/2009 (YE 31 March), a high single digit €m loss is expected; for 2009/2010, the results are expected to be "markedly negative". Looks like Dr Kaufmann, through his investment vehicle ACD Projektentwicklung is injecting "at least" €6m into the company. There's no doubting his commitment to make this work. So, as expected, Leica is having a tough time of it in the economic climate. But then I pick up the paper and see Saab are in deep trouble, GM are holding a gun to the heads of European Governments, Pioneer are shedding 10,000 jobs. It's pretty dire everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Hi marknorton, Take a look here Leica Q3 Results. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ErikFive Posted February 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted February 20, 2009 It looks like january and february probably was good though with all the sales during the rebate period. I know lots of people who bough M8/M8.2 and expensive glass. I think Robert White had their hands full with all the traffic from the US... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted February 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted February 20, 2009 In the quarter, Leica spent €1.8m on R&D, down from €3.8m in the previous year. Employees are up from 1003 to 1073. must have already finished developing the S2, R10 and M9 then! As for Jan and Feb, if you read the press release you will see that while sales were up in Q3, margins were way down. As much as anything these results show what a crap time they had in the first half last year. Everyone may be struggling, but at that time Leica were well ahead of the field Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted February 20, 2009 These results are for the period to the end of December 08 - January and February are excluded. I expect the rebates are to shift inventory and turn it into cash to run the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted February 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted February 22, 2009 Do these results give more (or less) credence to the rumour that Panasonic might buy Leica. Their predictions for 2010 look terrible. Can Dr Kaufmann sustain Leica through this period or do they need a much larger source of funds/technology for the future. They seem to be far less optimistic about the future of the S2, may have realised that in a market where there is so much pressure on price it will be difficult as an expensive new boy to make it profitable. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted February 22, 2009 How can anyone predict profit/sales numbers for 2010? None knows the product portfolio for that period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 22, 2009 Share #7 Posted February 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll come back to this thread after I've checked the financials of the various manufacturers of my other purchases, washing machine, kettle, pc, tv, hi fi, shoes, car, mobile phone, vodka, ........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted February 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted February 22, 2009 I'll come back to this thread after I've checked the financials of the various manufacturers of my other purchases, washing machine, kettle, pc, tv, hi fi, shoes, car, mobile phone, vodka, ........... Currently, the only DRF camera one can get is from Leica. I have a lot of fun with my Leica gear, I dont recall having much fun with the washing machine and in any case I can get another from a number of manufacturers. So I wouldn't bother checking their financials. Leica is a different matter. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted February 22, 2009 How can anyone predict profit/sales numbers for 2010?None knows the product portfolio for that period. Presumably, Leica do and are taking a commercial view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted February 22, 2009 I'll come back to this thread after I've checked the financials of the various manufacturers of my other purchases, washing machine, kettle, pc, tv, hi fi, shoes, car, mobile phone, vodka, ........... You don't have to look far , the headlines will tell you that all are in the toilet . The only ones making money these days are the oil companies . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted February 22, 2009 Presumably, Leica do and are taking a commercial view. Current expenses are financing future products... I expect increasing sales when the S2 and R10 cameras are in the market. The economic climate is horrible..., but Germany and France expect a turning point at the end of this year. However, Japan and USA's last macrodata precludes any optimism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted February 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted February 22, 2009 Current expenses are financing future products... I expect increasing sales when the S2 and R10 cameras are in the market. The economic climate is horrible..., but Germany and France expect a turning point at the end of this year. However, Japan and USA's last macrodata precludes any optimism. Rubén, I don't know in Germany but not in France... Our government keep on lying because we're out of Maastricht criteria of 3% PIB public debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted February 22, 2009 The only ones making money these days are the oil companies . They'll be the same oil companies who have seen their product drop two thirds in value compared to a year ago <grin>. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyj Posted February 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted February 22, 2009 It's kinda funny, but the only large purchases I've been making in the last couple of months have been for Leica gear. Everything else can wait. I guess that it has to do with what one thinks is important. Photography is more important to me than putting in new kitchen cabinets (fortunately my wife likes my photography). If I'm going to spend the money on photo gear then it's going to be for the good stuff. I wonder how prevalent that thought process is (or how many other photographers have understanding wives/girlfriends/keepers of the finances)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted February 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted February 22, 2009 The economic climate is horrible..., but Germany and France expect a turning point at the end of this year. However, Japan and USA's last macrodata precludes any optimism. Indeed. 18 months ago, finance minister of France assured everyone who wanted to listen (not many, believe me), that France would avoid recession. :D:D From + 1,9 % growth then, they announced now - 1,4 % of "negative growth" for 2009. It's not a V shape recession, it's a L shape one, and possibly depression. Gold wouldn't go through the roof if public deficits and money printing were not the prelude of inflation running high (possibly over 15 points, like in the mid-late-70ies until 1982-3 in some European countries). After deleveraging will end its cycle (2010 ? 2011 ?), inflation will be the only way to siphon debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted February 22, 2009 Rubén, I don't know in Germany but not in France... Our government keep on lying because we're out of Maastricht criteria of 3% PIB public debt. Well, all countries will be the same (with differences in magnitude). The point is the economic growth, and the unemployment. In my country (Spain) the crisis will be horribe: at least 3 years of recession (2008-2010), 14% of unemployment (current number... 4 millions of unemployed people, February 2009... 5 millions at the end of this year!), near 10% PIB of public debt for 2009, uncontrolled political corruption (even worse than Italy in this respect)... Compared to that, France and Germany are brilliant performers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted February 22, 2009 Gold wouldn't go through the roof if public deficits and money printing were not the prelude of inflation running high (possibly over 15 points, like in the mid-late-70ies until 1982-3 in some European countries). After deleveraging will end its cycle (2010 ? 2011 ?), inflation will be the only way to siphon debt. That is true, and a very good point. Currently, we are experiencing recession and deflation in Spain, but this second wave of massive monetary inyection will end in a very long "inflation period"... This crisis was maily caused by expansive monetary policies during many years, and governments try to solve the problems with expansive monetary policies again!... The short-run the effect on activity is positive... but in the long-run... The situation in Spain is even worse due to the huge housing market collapse, and the political collapse. Spain has the highest unemployment rate of the UE, the second largest inmigrant population in Europe (more than 5 millions arrived in 10 years). The pressure on the social security system is very high. The central and regional governments expenses aren't being reduced, and the public debt is draining private savings resources. I expect a very, very long L recession shape for Spain, similar to that of Japan. Even if Europe recovers, Spain will not. USA can pull the western economies, but I have doubts, in spite of the recovery plan of Mr. Obama. Maybe China will be the new economic locomotive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted February 22, 2009 Share #18 Posted February 22, 2009 Well, all countries will be the same (with differences in magnitude). The point is the economic growth, and the unemployment. In my country (Spain) the crisis will be horribe: at least 3 years of recession (2008-2010), 14% of unemployment (current number... 4 millions of unemployed people, February 2009... 5 millions at the end of this year!), near 10% PIB of public debt for 2009, uncontrolled political corruption (even worse than Italy in this respect)... Compared to that, France and Germany are brilliant performers! Aunque vivo en Paris desde hace mas de 20 años, te recuerdo que soy de Bilbao, que voy a menudo por España y sigo la actualidad española. Los problemas en Francia no son los mismos que en España. La crisis se manifiesta de manera diferente en ambos paises. Las últimas previsiones del gobierno francés (que son las más optimistas) anuncian recesión en 2009 y 2010... Ya veremos... Venga, un abrazo. ArtZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted February 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted February 22, 2009 USA can pull the western economies, but I have doubts, in spite of the recovery plan of Mr. Obama. You may. Maybe China will be the new economic locomotive... Not once in a blue moon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 23, 2009 Share #20 Posted February 23, 2009 They'll be the same oil companies who have seen their product drop two thirds in value compared to a year ago <grin>. So you think they'll make less profit ???? Exxon/Mobil has been posting record profits regardless of the price of crude , and regardless of the price at pump. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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