mgcd Posted January 17, 2009 Share #61 Posted January 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know Conrad your more the exception than the rule and others as well but percentage wise you sort of lose out if you know what I mean. We know Leica caters to a certain clientele no question but even so they are moving on too. They need to attract and get new buyers besides us old dogs. LOL True enough Guy! lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Hi mgcd, Take a look here price of the new S2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sdai Posted January 17, 2009 Share #62 Posted January 17, 2009 I know Conrad your more the exception than the rule and others as well but percentage wise you sort of lose out if you know what I mean. We know Leica caters to a certain clientele no question but even so they are moving on too. They need to attract and get new buyers besides us old dogs. LOL Guy, if 30x45 can really sell, there's nothing - absolutely nothing - can stop Nikon/Sony/Canon et al start to build their own 30x45 cameras at all. Then Leica will lose again. It's not the way to win by playing a one man's game in your own ball park. Leica doesn't need to attract any new kid on the block, if they can stop their own customers from defecting to other makes, there're tons of money to make. I'm ready to buy a R10 in all cash now, they can't take my money because they don't have one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 17, 2009 Share #63 Posted January 17, 2009 The day will come, and I suspect sooner rather than later, for a curved sensor which would ensure better light capture at the periphery. We aren't talking a large amount of curvature being needed. A few articles below on the subject. Method and apparatus for forming curved image sensor module - Patent 6791072 Method and apparatus for forming curved image sensor module - US Patent 6791072 Description Photonic crystal-based lens elements for use in an image sensor invention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 17, 2009 Share #64 Posted January 17, 2009 Guy, if 30x45 can really sell, there's nothing - absolutely nothing - can stop Nikon/Sony/Canon et al start to build their own 30x45 cameras at all. Then Leica will lose again. It's not the way to win by playing a one man's game in your own ball park. Leica doesn't need to attract any new kid on the block, if they can stop their own customers from defecting to other makes, there're tons of money to make. I'm ready to buy a R10 in all cash now, they can't take my money because they don't have one. But Simon you hit one of my points they are losing there own clientele and that is not good. Certainly going to be interesting with the S2 pricing and how much they can steal and attract from the MF and 35mm markets. If nothing than there is no hope for a R10 because this may make or break them to some degree. What will be interesting is how much difference in price between the S2 and R10 when all is said and done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 18, 2009 Share #65 Posted January 18, 2009 True enough Guy! lol Well, I guess that makes me one of the old dogs too. LOL! I just want a more compact, more low-light friendly version of the DMR as well (ok, something in the range of 20mp would be ok for the occasional crop ) Just like Conrad, if that cost me $10K I'd do it in a heartbeat. The DMR files still kill me when I'm working with them. They more than stand up to anything the current Canons or Nikons deliver (and the glass kills 'em still: there's nothing like the current 50 Lux from anyone). The more I work with DNR files, the more I like them. And if I can whine for a moment, I really would like a full-frame M. The fact is, there really isn't stellar and fast M wides that can be used wide. Even the 21 Lux is going to be a 28 with a 1.33 crop, and I'd like to use my 50s as 50s again Yeah, I know I can use the 35 or even a 28, but those lenses still look different On the other hand, a better image-quality higher ISO M9 that's learned everything from the M8 would be ok as well. I'll call it an "M8.5" regardless of what they release it as... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnri Posted January 18, 2009 Share #66 Posted January 18, 2009 The DMR files still kill me when I'm working with them. They more than stand up to anything the current Canons or Nikons deliver There is no way the DMR files can come close to the D3x. I only hope that the next 35mm offering from Leica has the latest generation of sensor technology so it can take full advantage of the excellent Leica glass. Best, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_thomsen Posted January 18, 2009 Share #67 Posted January 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) i think 10 K€ is the max for leica otherwise the s2 will not be accepted. i spoke on friday to some ppl of calumet-they told me that they are not going to put the s2 on their list as many professionals dont believe in leica quality. they told me leica is for lawyers and dentist.lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 18, 2009 Share #68 Posted January 18, 2009 There is no way the DMR files can come close to the D3x. I only hope that the next 35mm offering from Leica has the latest generation of sensor technology so it can take full advantage of the excellent Leica glass. Best, Bill Maybe Bill--maybe not. If the colour and AA factor is similar to my D3, the DMR will definitely not only come close, but best it in all but the biggest prints (yes they are that good, and I love my D3 too, but their better than each other at completely different things). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnri Posted January 18, 2009 Share #69 Posted January 18, 2009 Maybe Bill--maybe not. If the colour and AA factor is similar to my D3, the DMR will definitely not only come close, but best it in all but the biggest prints My D3x blows away my D3 and D700. Color, tonality, detail, every aspect of IQ really, is all better in the D3x. The files are incredible. Even the jpegs are great and I haven't felt that way about any of my Nikons. The D3x sets a very high bar for any premium dSLR to get over. I'm hoping Leica really, really tries. My dream camera from Leica would be a M9 with a 35mm sensor with more MP and better high ISO response than the M8. Best, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 18, 2009 Share #70 Posted January 18, 2009 Yes, Bill, I agree the D3x is impressive but how many Nikon current lenses are up to the job? Below 200mm, a handful. The new AF-S 50/1.4 is distinctly ho-hum, IMHO, the 28mm/1.4 disappoints and the 85mm/1.4 is as soft as anything out in the FX corners. That's Leica's trump card. They're not afraid to push the envelope with their lenses and that's why - potentially - the R10 has the chance to compete with the D3x. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohnri Posted January 19, 2009 Share #71 Posted January 19, 2009 Yes, Bill, I agree the D3x is impressive but how many Nikon current lenses are up to the job? Below 200mm, a handful. The new AF-S 50/1.4 is distinctly ho-hum, IMHO, the 28mm/1.4 disappoints and the 85mm/1.4 is as soft as anything out in the FX corners. That's Leica's trump card. They're not afraid to push the envelope with their lenses and that's why - potentially - the R10 has the chance to compete with the D3x. I agree. Believe me when I tell you I am hopeful. My M8 files, when shot at ISO 160 or 320, are beautiful, full of clean detail and wonderful color. If Leica pulls out a great sensor for the R10 then I will be thrilled. There are some winners among the Nikon glass though. The 85 f/1.4 is a superb portrait lens and I have had some luck with the new 50 f/1.4 for people in low light as well. Not that I would compare the Nikon 50 to the great M mount 50's. The Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 may be the best ultra-wide in the world today. Anyway, we all know Lieca will hit a home run with their glass. Let's just hope for a camera to match! Best, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #72 Posted January 19, 2009 The 14-24 is truly amazing. I think it's even sharper than my Zeiss primes. But I don't think mp is everything. Sometimes it's just the "footprint" and even though the M8 "only" has 10mp I think it will be a fantastic shooter for a long long time. I'm even not minding the higher iso's so much anymore, though for client work I don't hesitate to turn to the D3 (recently shot several mag pieces there would be no way to shoot other than 3200 and you would never know it). But I find the D3 images to be a bit "dull" at times, even with the best glass. They just don't pop the same way the Leica does. That's one of the reasons I'm investing in a second M8 even though many now consider it dated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 19, 2009 Share #73 Posted January 19, 2009 {snipped}But I find the D3 images to be a bit "dull" at times, even with the best glass. They just don't pop the same way the Leica does. That's one of the reasons I'm investing in a second M8 even though many now consider it dated. Exactly--and if you think the M8's files are great, you should see the DMR's at lower ISOs. Wow. I haven't seen any D3x RAWs yet, but I'll look out for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted January 19, 2009 Share #74 Posted January 19, 2009 Yes, Bill, I agree the D3x is impressive but how many Nikon current lenses are up to the job? Below 200mm, a handful. The new AF-S 50/1.4 is distinctly ho-hum, IMHO, the 28mm/1.4 disappoints and the 85mm/1.4 is as soft as anything out in the FX corners. That's Leica's trump card. They're not afraid to push the envelope with their lenses and that's why - potentially - the R10 has the chance to compete with the D3x. mark, the 14-24mm is wonderful on the D3x, the 24-70mm is great (except distortion on the 24mm end), the 60mm micro and the 105 micro are very good. the 24mm and 45mm PCE are impressive and the 200mm f2.0 is fantastic. and yes, i do have experience with leica glass. they will have to work hard to provide a package which is overall superior. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted January 19, 2009 Share #75 Posted January 19, 2009 Some of the new Nikon-glas is nice but "great" IQ with a 14-24/24-70 at 24MP? Have you ever seen files from a 22MP-back + Rodenstock/Schneider-lenses? That's "great" IQ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted January 19, 2009 Share #76 Posted January 19, 2009 Some of the new Nikon-glas is nice but "great" IQ with a 14-24/24-70 at 24MP? Have you ever seen files from a 22MP-back + Rodenstock/Schneider-lenses? That's "great" IQ! i have schneider 24mm, 35mm, 47mm, 90mm, 180mm, rodenstock 28mm, 55mm, and use them on my alpa XY, SWA, MAX with PhaseOne P45 and Leaf Aptus 75. then also Hasselblad H3DII50 (since last month only) with all HC lenses (except the 50-110mm zoom, which i dislike). so much on whether i have seen the files from medium format backs. those beat the D3x, the P25 files in my opinion do not (although one can argue). still, i retain the adjektive 'great' for D3x files. the comparism with the DMR is ridiculous, i am curious whether the S2 will -overall- get there. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 19, 2009 Share #77 Posted January 19, 2009 i have schneider 24mm, 35mm, 47mm, 90mm, 180mm, rodenstock 28mm, 55mm, and use them on my alpa XY, SWA, MAX with PhaseOne P45 and Leaf Aptus 75. then also Hasselblad H3DII50 (since last month only) with all HC lenses (except the 50-110mm zoom, which i dislike). so much on whether i have seen the files from medium format backs. those beat the D3x, the P25 files in my opinion do not (although one can argue). still, i retain the adjektive 'great' for D3x files. the comparism with the DMR is ridiculous, i am curious whether the S2 will -overall- get there.peter Peter, I am very interested in your comments regarding the d3x. Can you comment how the d3x compared to the D3 at low ISO besides resolution? I feel the D3 is not that great in showing microdetail of skin for example. Do you feel the d3x is any better. The other question which came to my mind: What do you do with so many backs and systems??? Is there any paarticular reason to own a P45 qand the leaf back and the Hassy? Kind regards, Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted January 20, 2009 Share #78 Posted January 20, 2009 What do you do with so many backs and systems??? Is there any paarticular reason to own a P45 qand the leaf back and the Hassy? For tests, comparisons and scientific studies? You can see some of Peter's images here, if he thinks something is bad, then I guess it can't be good. Universal pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 20, 2009 Share #79 Posted January 20, 2009 {snipped} still, i retain the adjektive 'great' for D3x files. the comparism with the DMR is ridiculous, i am curious whether the S2 will -overall- get there.peter Peter, equipment notwithstanding, a comparison of Nikon files with DMR files is anything but "ridiculous" if your terms are a "normal" sized print. So in terms of comparison on an 11 * 14 print, for example, shot with a 50mm lens, printed on, say, a Lambda, I'm quite curious how the D3x would show a significant advantage in any shooting case whatsoever over a DMR and a current 50 R Lux. So since many of us haven't had the opportunity to work with a D3x yet, could you elaborate on its superior detail characteristics against a more well-known quantity, say, the D3? That would help me, since I *do* know how the DMR stacks up against a D3; I shoot both all the time And if that is anything to go by, then I'd say I have quite a lot of faith in Leica getting to the image quality they need with the S2. But--and this is a big but--again, MF is a different game entirely. Given the rumours about its price, I'm more interested as the S2 as a platform than actually purchasing or leasing one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 20, 2009 Share #80 Posted January 20, 2009 Jamie, I suggest you look at the diglloyd blog and scroll down to the comparison between the D3 and D3x. diglloyd Blog: January 2009 It is very apparent that the D3x is really a superior file to the D3. I can't comment on the DMR as I haven't seen a comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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