lars_bergquist Posted January 6, 2009 Share #21 Posted January 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I'm with Pedro. Where the hell are the creative electrical engineers in all this? The M8 is electronic. Why should it have mechanical noise? Let's have a sensor that's "off" until it turns "on" instantaneously. C'mon you engineer guys. That's what you get the big bucks for. ... Bill, engineers are not wizards that can undo natural laws at the whim of their employers.There are just so many electrons that a photodiode can capture, and then it overflows. Too much overflow and you get blooming. And residual electrons in the diode when the exposure begins will increase noise. A mechanical shutter is large and noisy and expensive and a general nuisance. If manufacturers could sell cameras without this nuisance, and have them accepted by the users, they would do so with enthusiasm. And even small children do learn that Santa can't always deliver all that they can dream up. The old man from the Age of the Contaflex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here Why does the M8 need a mechanical shutter?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 6, 2009 Share #22 Posted January 6, 2009 I already have the prototype. It's call a Digilux 2. The Digilux2 has a mechanical shutter as well..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 6, 2009 Share #23 Posted January 6, 2009 I am not in the business, but am ready to buy one. Only a few years ago, Leica could "not make a digital M body." They couldn't design a full frame digital body - or rather they couldn't design a full frame body with acceptable quality. They still can't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted January 6, 2009 Share #24 Posted January 6, 2009 Technologies to do the job exists (eg. Planar Lightwave Circuits), but are probably cost prohibitive. The thinking was probably that "it ain't broke". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted January 6, 2009 Share #25 Posted January 6, 2009 wouldn't a non-mechanical shutter like those in point n' shoots & my old digilux II be cursed with shutter lag? Yup, that's part of the broken bit.... [Taken from Wikipedia: ] Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction: 1. When a distinguished ... scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. 2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. 3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. [it seems that all 3 laws apply here.] The Digilux2 has a mechanical shutter as well..... OK! Let's put that one in the M8. Damn it's quiet! What a great idea, Jaap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted January 6, 2009 Share #26 Posted January 6, 2009 Even cameras such as the Panasonic G1 which have EVF and live view have a mechanical shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2009 Share #27 Posted January 6, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK! Let's put that one in the M8. Damn it's quiet! What a great idea, Jaap. It would be, wouldn't it:rolleyes: . That would mean a Compur-type shutter with a max speed of 1/500th though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 6, 2009 Share #28 Posted January 6, 2009 It would be, wouldn't it:rolleyes: . That would mean a Compur-type shutter with a max speed of 1/500th though... And a completely new set of lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 6, 2009 Share #29 Posted January 6, 2009 I want to defend Bill a little bit here. Just because I can't do something, doesn't mean I shouldn't ask other people to do it, whose job it is. Heck, Michael Schumacher can't build a race car, but Ferrari paid him a lot of money to demand things from their engineers, and look where it got them. If someone is good at their job, they don't get defensive about demands from clients and end-users. They try everything they can to consider the client's input and maybe come up with something revolutionary that their engineer buddies have not thought of. My brother is an engineer, and he says that it is very common fro companies, not even necessarily their engineers, to stay within conventions for no reason. Thinking outside the box sometimes requires a kick from outside the box. So Bill, it is not your job to build cameras, you just keep buying them. And feel free to tell the manufacturer what you like. If enough people do this, maybe they'll listen. If it really can't be done, then it won't be, no harm no fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted January 6, 2009 Share #30 Posted January 6, 2009 And a completely new set of lenses. Just use one of the LTM Summicron Compur Lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 6, 2009 Share #31 Posted January 6, 2009 Btw. I am excited about getting my M8 upgraded. M8.2 really does sound nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted January 6, 2009 Share #32 Posted January 6, 2009 The new thing will be a "Steve J" kind of guy showing how "WOW" the camera is. + an iCamera Store, where things like trendy new shutter sounds can be downloaded. If the people is to speak, this is exactly what they want. The sceptic people will give up over time and join the venture. But wanting something doesn't mean that you need it, and if you don't need it there's a possibility that it will do you worse than good. Maybe an electronic shutter will be nice, maybe not. Is it a prime factor of a good and needed quality? /H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted January 6, 2009 Share #33 Posted January 6, 2009 ... But wanting something doesn't mean that you need it, and if you don't need it there's a possibility that it will do you worse than good. Maybe an electronic shutter will be nice, maybe not. Is it a prime factor of a good and needed quality? /H The noise of the M8 shutter has been the subject of many complaints in numerous threads. Speaking personally, the noise inhibits much of my theater photography. An update to the D2 to provide better noise handling would make my day. I can handle the lag just fine. The reason for this is, or course, that the dancers always wait in the air for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted January 6, 2009 Share #34 Posted January 6, 2009 An update to the D2 to provide better noise handling would make my day. I can handle the lag just fine. The reason for this is, or course, that the dancers always wait in the air for me. Reaction is more important for me, given the circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 6, 2009 Share #35 Posted January 6, 2009 ... I can handle the lag just fine. The reason for this is, or course, that the dancers always wait in the air for me. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 6, 2009 Share #36 Posted January 6, 2009 The noise of the M8 shutter has been the subject of many complaints in numerous threads. Speaking personally, the noise inhibits much of my theater photography. An update to the D2 to provide better noise handling would make my day. I can handle the lag just fine. The reason for this is, or course, that the dancers always wait in the air for me. Hi Bill, Are you using the M8.2? Cheers, S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted January 7, 2009 Share #37 Posted January 7, 2009 Hi Bill, Are you using the M8.2? Cheers, S Sean, not yet. Got 2 M8's and am waiting to see your reviews of the 21 'lux! Leica in touch with you yet? I did read your comments about the shutter sounds and may just have to flip for the shutter or the Fast Wide Prime -- I was going to say "next year" but it IS next year. Best regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 7, 2009 Share #38 Posted January 7, 2009 Bill, I was on the fence about upgrading, so I went to the store and fired an M8.2. One of the most expensive shutter releases ever. It was love at first click. (vs. my old clunk!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted January 8, 2009 Share #39 Posted January 8, 2009 I expect that M9 will be practically 'solid state', with an 'electronic shutter' without any mechanical parts. Just like on any PS camera today. This will make the whole camera far cheaper. Then each and everyone can choose their own exposure sound from a menu. Like you choose a call signal on a cell phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparobertsan Posted January 8, 2009 Share #40 Posted January 8, 2009 OH~NO~ I need mechanical shutter inside my M8!!! I don`t want CMOS NoN Shutter upgrade done to my camera! I Think Leica M should be as mechanical as possible! I enjoy using mechanical cameras but don`t want use film because they cost a lot. I love sound of shutter when I take photos, compact camera is way too quiet for me- I will not turn off shutter sound! It is kind of like fishing ---when you catch a fish you want feel the vibration on the rod but if fish come up so easily it is not so satisfying! I need to feel it---" yep I have got a shot!" Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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