R10 introduction

[ho_co]

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FWIW--

Interview in German language from Süddeutsche Zeitung, Die Leica machte Fotografen wie Korda und Cartier-Bresson zu Stars und versank dann in der digitalen Moderne. Jetzt soll sie wieder auferstehen, in which Dr Kaufmann says the R10 will appear next year.

 

That would likely mean PMA, right, just a couple months away?

 

 

I saw the article mentioned in the German forum (though I can't find the reference now) and thought it would be worthwhile to make it known here as well if it hasn't already been mentioned.

 

Extremely interesting article, BTW, tracing some of the idiotic misjudgments of Leica's past management but offering hope for the future.

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[Wolfgang Esslinger]

I doubt if Dr. K really said "next year" as mentioned in the article. At the Photokina the R10 was mentioned as next priority but don't forget: S2 is not on the market yet! And I hope that learnings from the S2 go into the R10 development. I am not expecting an R10 before the next Photokina. By that time full format sensor cameras should be around 1000€ or less, so R10 would be somewhere around 2-3000€. Wild guessing and wishes of course as in numerous other threads ;-)

[ho_co]

Good point, Wolfgang. Taking the quote literally would mean that Leica is moving extremely rapidly.

 

Even a single new camera every two years would still be swift for Leica.

 

And it would be very unusual for Leica to introduce a major new product anywhere except photokina. (I think the Leica CL might have been introduced at PMA, though.)

 

At any rate, it's a frank but hopeful article.

[jaapv]

But I fear 3000 Euro for the R10 is wildly optimistic....

[john_f]

Howard,

 

I am going to a Leica Demo Clinic tomorrow, Dec 12 and Sat, Dec 13 at Camtec Photo in Montreal (Canada). Both Brian Bell of Leica Canada and Justin Staily of Leica USA will be present (along with Gerry Smith of Kindermann Canada). Not sure the S2 will be on demonstration, but the new M lenses will. If I find anything new about the R10, I will let you know.

 

If you live near Montreal and are interested in attending this two day event, click on the following:

CamtecPhoto - Leicaboutique - Montreal's Premier camera shop

Leica Weekend: December 12 & 13 2008

 

Cheers,

 

John F.

[ho_co]

John, sounds like fun no matter what.

 

Keep us posted!

[wizard]

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But I fear 3000 Euro for the R10 is wildly optimistic....

 

Jaap,

 

3000 Euro will buy you an option for later purchasing the new R10 at retail price .

 

Andy

[TimF]

I doubt if Dr. K really said "next year" as mentioned in the article. At the Photokina the R10 was mentioned as next priority but don't forget: S2 is not on the market yet! And I hope that learnings from the S2 go into the R10 development. I am not expecting an R10 before the next Photokina. By that time full format sensor cameras should be around 1000€ or less, so R10 would be somewhere around 2-3000€. Wild guessing and wishes of course as in numerous other threads ;-)

When I bought my M8.2 in mid-November, the subject of the R10 came up. My dealer said he thought it would be available "about this time next year", so maybe about December 2009 to March 2010 would be my guess.

[mhoersch]

Well, Leica are very proficient in announcing products they don't actually have and making promises they don't actually keep - so why not announce at PMA 2009 an R10 for $ 999 to appear at Photokina 2014?

No risk, no fun!

[adan]

Here's a (very) rough google translation of the key paragraph:

 

"In the next year, the S2 in the series go, as a special tool for fashion and industrial photographers, the purchase price in the five-level can afford. But the circle of potential buyers is small, knows well the Leica boss Kaufmann.

 

He admits openly admitted that he prefers the first totally outdated R-reflex system would be reviewed......The S 2, says a businessman, was primarily a technological statement, but not necessarily for the bread-and-butter business thought. Because money earned Leica at the time especially with binoculars and with the M 8.2......

 

But good, says Kaufmann, and looks very pleased that he had with his team already have a few funny surprises invented: First comes next year, the R 10, on the Internet forums (that's US!) have been years of speculation is. But as the inquiry hears of joy at Kaufmann."

[ho_co]

Yes, the article stresses that his good humor is unfailing.

 

It remarks that Dr Kaufmann wanted to introduce the R10 this year and save the S2 till next, but Steven K Lee decided to do it as has been done.

 

It also mentions that (quoting from memory) Cohn remarked in the Spiegel interview that digital was just an "Intermezzo," and that Leica management sold Minolta the rights to their invention of autofocus because "Leica photographers don't want anything like that."

 

It's worth reading, as I said above. Once again, Kaufmann sounds like the man for the job if there is a man for the job.

[veraikon]

I doubt if Dr. K really said "next year" as mentioned in the article

 

I don´t doubt. Let put together our information puzzle for a more global picture.

 

Which details do we know about the R10 ?

 

_ this interview

_ the LFI article with the picture of Maike Harbarths(?) which tells us that she has become

"R10 Chief developper" in Oct 2008

_ the FoMag article (german FotoMagazin, November edition) in which Dr kaufmann mentions the

same as in the Süddeutschen - and the remark that some hand specimen of the R10 are still existing.

(author of the article was someone who wrote several books about Leica Cameras )

_ the info from the Leica Info day (15/16th Nov. 2008) about the R10

- Die R10 wird abwärtskompatibel

 

- Springblende und zumindest Zeitautomatik werden mit R-Objektiven möglich sein

 

- nicht alle neuen elektronischen Gimmicks mit den alten Objektiven

 

- die ersten neuen Autofocus Objektive werden Zooms sein.

 

-aus diesem Grund findet man auch einige alten R Objektive schon nicht mehr im

Sortiment , z.B 21-35.

[Guest DuquesneG]

I have the latest Leica product catalog on my desk and the R system is completely missing, so my only conclusion until someone official from Leica says different, is that it is officially discontinued. I wouldn't be awfully surprised to see the R10 leapfrog the S2 introduction. Economic times have changed drastically in the past few months, and plans that looked reasonable a year ago might be insane now. Given Leica's long absence from the mainstream pro market, the well-publicized M8 intro debacle and equally well-publicized service and support deficiencies, trying to capture enough of the high-end pro market to break even on the S2 let alone make a profit, I'm sure Kaufmann understands very well is a huge gamble in the best of times, and these are not the best of times by far. So it might make perfect sense that he might think an R10, catering to an albeit meager but dependable market of die-hard R fanatics, could be the better foot to put forward. It will be interesting.

[gdb]

Whether there is a crisis or not, there certainly are much more people who eagerly wait for a R10 than for an S2 that does not exist (have you ever seen a picture made by this so-called wonder?). Do you really believe Leica when they say "next year", or "very soon"?

 

We have been waiting for the DMR for almost two years. One year later, this marvel was kind of "kaputt" (whatever the reasons...).

 

Problems with the introduction of the M8 are remembered by all the members of this forum. Are the sales up to their hopes?

 

Two years later, they introduce a "professional" camera and a full line of lenses for a minority who is already equiped with excellent (and expensive) stuff. Do you think that this minority is going to re-invest in a new camera of which nobody knows when it is available, and do you really think that Leica’s financial situation is going to improve with the S2 and all its lenses ?

 

The only thing Leica (or so-called “Dr” Kaufmann) had to do for the Photokina was to introduce a new R10 body. Just a new body with all the new features they announce on the S2, but compatible with the existing R Lenses, enriching them with focus confirmation. That would have rejoiced many of us, and would have helped their finances far quicker. They would have had all the necessary time to develop new autofocus lenses, and THEN, transfer this technology to the S2 instead of doing the opposite... Before trying to conquer the professional market, why don’t they reconquer their enthusiasts first?

 

Just a personal opinion...

 

Gérard

[stuny]

Gérard -

 

It's good to see you back here, even with such meager news of the camera we both want to see (Barbara asked about it last night over dinner). Please post some photos with your Leica glass, please send our regards to M, and please pet Isis for me.

[leicar7]

I was the first one to initiate a thread decrying the failure to introduce anything R at Fotokina 2008 on this forum.

 

Some reasons later became clear, especially during Mr Kaufmann's address to the Leica Historical Society of America's (LHSA) recent annual meeting in Louisville, KY. The S2 project was initiated and brought to 20 working bodies plus lenses from March 2008 to Photokina. There was NO reflex program in progress at Leica when Mr Kaufmann took the helm. Steven Lee had, for who knows what reasons, had kanked both the R and S programs.

 

Yes, Mr Kaufmann showed the audience the first image taken with an S2. About 150 of us saw it. It was taken hand held indoors with flourescent lighting of the several persons most involved with the S2 project. Not remarkable in any way, but it is the first picture taken with an S2.

 

I'd say this is one H... of an engineering tour de force. One of the 20 working S2s and 70mm lens was available at the LHSA meeting. It is a beautiful conception that, price considering, has the potential to displace even some of the monstrously large DSLRs. It is handy enough to use on the street, even though it is intended for specialized professional uses.

 

Maike Harberts e-mailed me after I asked for her to attend the LHSA meeting to do something for the morale of R users. It was too late for her to plan for that, but she assured me that she is right now running the R10 program.

 

So what we have right now, economy and prices aside - and that is a huge aside - is the most fervent assurances from the people who count at Leica assuring us that the R10 program is underway. Time? Who really knows. But I am more than confident that they are working on it.

 

I'm still waiting, too.