Storage

[JHAG]

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Do you store your date through online services like MobileMe ?

Or any external data storage ?

I store everything on a Sonnet array (4 swappable disks).

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[brucek]

After experiencing a couple of hard disk crashes I now rely on two ReadyNAS networked RAID storage devices. Each has four swappable disks (I'm not sure if they're hot swappable or not) and I store my photos on them. I've had a hard disk fail in one and lost nothing. I also keep copies on discrete hard drives that are stored off site. When it comes to computers and computer equipment, one cannot be paranoid enough.

[JHAG]

In fact, having discussed RAID with my IT engineer (and with Bill Parsons here),

I opted for a non-RAID array. I just have Time Machine copying everything every

hour on one disk, then I switch for another disk, every day. In a RAID, I'd have

all four disks always on - thus more fatigue.

In fact, my second question is :

- have a backup on swappable disks I put in a safe at the bank

- or have a backup with online services (costly, because I already

have 4 Tb to save)

[jaapv]

4Tb ? That would take very,very long to do the initial upload.

[JHAG]

Indeed, jaapv.

The onsite solution should be best.

[whorg]

RAID is most useful in a 24/7/365 mission critical operation where customer support is paramount. I've built large RAID systems for Ivy Leage schools in this regard, their operational stability was quite evident on my watch. Having such redundant systems will shorten drive life-spans though . . . and depending on the RAID level, affect I/O quite a bit in this same regard . . . and they eat power big-time.

 

Network/web accessible drives in a home networking solution offer great benefits, then a single back-up from that . . . along with on-line storage that fills my off-site requirements - and is redundant enough for my personal needs.

 

Everyone is different, but trusting one drive for your needs is a disaster. Hard disks and power supplies (anything that has electric motors) are usually the first failures in a computer system.

 

Have fun developing your own solution and be careful.

 

~jk

[JHAG]

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whorg, I agree, RAID is overkill for me.

I don't have one drive as a back-up, I have 4.

Plus another two on which I'm saving documents

(non-photo).

And I'll soon have 3 computers instead of one.

[wparsonsgisnet]

This posting is actually not off-topic.

 

I am thinking about adding a second computer and am trying to figure out how to share the disks between them.

 

My current system is a windoze desktop, to which I have attached about 4 TB of external drives, mostly USB, via powered hubs. In this disk farm I have 2 copies of all my pic files. In addition, there is a set of disks "offsite" (in a detached garage in a fireproof box) that contains a 3rd copy of all the pix files.

 

I also do video, so I have the original recording, on tapes, and one copy of the DVD image in a form that allows me to burn DVD's. A copy of this set of files also resides in the garage.

 

In total, therefore, I have 3 copies of all my photo and video images.

 

I'm trying to figure out how to attach the onsite disk to 2 computers. I am also about to replace my DSL with a fiber connection. I had not thought about networking, but this might the a correct solution.

 

I would appreciate all suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance,

[Sandokan]

Hi,

 

I would advise RAID5 as you are using more disc space with a mirror of your live data. No thoughts about fatigue as I believe (no technical paper to back me up) that constantly on and warm is better than start/stop.

 

I have a Thecus 5200 which has 5x 1TB discs in RAID5 (my backup device and sharing for the other 4 computers at home). I also have 4x 750GB discs built into my Mac - but that is just overkill . I have been doing a lot of HD video and my old powerbook was not upto the job. Remembering which file had which processing done was also a problem so now I have centralised the working data, with backups held on the local computer where they were uploaded from.

 

Back to your original question - off site backup (on multiple DVDs) is the cheapest way (at the office or a trusted friend/relative). Whenever the new data exceeds 3GB, I burn 2 or 3 DVDs and store them at in laws and at my office. Or you could use something like Zenfolio to keep your photo images and have them locked with a password so people cannot view/download them. For full assurance - use Swiss DataSafe, with their storage in a Swiss Mountain (I have drinks with them tonight if you want a discount).

 

Ravi

[Sandokan]

@Bill - you can try and take what you can from my post.

 

Networked Attached storage is a good way to share data across computers and your existing discs should be compatible if they are SATA etc.

 

With corporations moving to backup strategies such as Tape Libraries or even to Virtual Tape Libraries, you may find individual backup tape devices on the market at a reasonable price.

 

Your fire proof box is good - what is the rating for the internal heat rise during a fire happening outside of it?

[JHAG]

Now that I'm thinking back, there's a very relevant thread here :

 

Luminous Landscape Forum -> Computers & Peripherals

 

HD-Back

 

DVD is not so reliable. You should systematically replace it once a year.

[whorg]

Bill - go with fiber if you have the chance.

 

A home networking solution is easy to attain . . . we use MS Media Center with various extenders around the house . . . and can view my pics on the HD plasma display in our living room, streamed off the main photo computer upstairs. Makes it nice for guests . . .

 

Shared network style drives at home offer flexibility, growth and redundancy. I use a web styled service that allows me access to one of my network drives from anywhere in the world in this manner . . . so I can have a dual backup (home network drive and web/on-line storage) in an instant anywhere there's a computer when we travel.

 

With a fiber at home, your on-line storage upload/download speeds will rival direct hardware solutions, depending on which service tier you subscribe to. We have two internet connections (one static), XBox 360, Nintendo Wii, Sony PS3, HD digital cable television, two VOIP telephone lines . . . all going over fiber . . . and the tech claims we are using less than 15% of it's capacity/bandwidth capability at this point in time.

 

I will probably be the first person on my block with a flying car.

 

~jk

[wparsonsgisnet]

The fireproof box I use is rated at 2,000 degrees-plus. The garage is wooden and probably would not go above 1,000 degrees, particularly with water applied (we hope).

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Sandokan]

hi Bill

 

I agree with the fibre optic suggestion. If it costs you no more now then go for it. You will find the need for the bandwidth at some point with on-demand TV etc from AppleTV or its competitors.

 

What I meant was:

Data and Paper Protection Explained

 

Basically the inside of the safe has to stay below 55C for data stored on magnetic media and probably the same or less for DVD etc. And what I didnt know was that this has to be for upto 8 hours after the fire is out.

 

And I agree about DVD storage - it is not an archival solution, but one that should be treated as a rotating media. As we discovered in the company, the only way to archive something and be sure of retrieving it after 5 or more years - was to keep it online and live! EMC must love that.

 

 

Ravi

[wparsonsgisnet]

My friends tell me regularly that they have backed up their files to a CD or DVD. They are quite surprised when I inform them that these are NOT archival media and they should not expect the images to be retrievable for very long. Many of my Photoshop books start with a chapter that discusses backup as the first option -- and they always talk about CD or DVD. No wonder so many are fooled into thinking that a photog who knows all this PS stuff can also tell them about computer stuff.

 

Perceptions are quite skewed. A 500MB disk that costs less than $100 in an external enclosure is viewed as expensive, while numerous copies on CD and DVD media at $0.50 to $1.00 are not. My cost for a DVD (Verbatim DataLifePlus white ink-jet writable) is $0.40 and a plastic sleeve from Stables is $0.25. Naturally, I try to reuse the sleeve. It takes a lot of these to equal a cup of Starbucks....

 

And an M8 is viewed as expensive, while a BMW is not. I guess having the girl in the car is worth two of them in the viewfinder.

[JHAG]

Cheap is always expensive - in the end.

[cboudier]

I just have Time Machine copying everything every

hour on one disk, then I switch for another disk, every day. In a RAID, I'd have

all four disks always on - thus more fatigue.

Plugging-in and plugging-off also increase fatigue (in other parts of course...)

But this is not my purpose here...

How does Time Machine behave with different disks ?

Did you tried to recover "old" files ? How does it go ?

 

Thanks.

[JHAG]

I just fire on the Sonnet at night.

Rather better than letting it on 24/24.

Time Machine is very simple (I hare

Retrospect, etc. : too complicated).

When I need a "old" file, I open TM.

As it is an exact complete replica

of my machine, I know exactly where

things are.

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Hallo,

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[cboudier]

Imagine you create a file during day 1, then run TM and then delete this file. The file is present on backup disk 1.

24 hours later, you run again TM (on an other external disk as far as I understand)

The deleted file won't be on disk 2.

I conclude from this that you have 4 different backup sets.

--> This is not equal to having 4 copies of the same backup (as with a RAID system)

OK, OK, I know, from one day to the day after, the difference is tiny I guess...

 

If you run TM and ask for a specific file, does it ask you for a specific backup disk ?

 

I'm interested in this because I also rely on TM for my backups...

[JHAG]

Imagine you create a file during day 1, then run TM and then delete this file. The file is present on backup disk 1.

24 hours later, you run again TM (on an other external disk as far as I understand)

The deleted file won't be on disk 2.

I conclude from this that you have 4 different backup sets.

--> This is not equal to having 4 copies of the same backup (as with a RAID system)

OK, OK, I know, from one day to the day after, the difference is tiny I guess...

 

If you run TM and ask for a specific file, does it ask you for a specific backup disk ?

 

I'm interested in this because I also rely on TM for my backups...

 

No. I'm more disciplined.

Each time I run Time Machine and the Sonnet, it backups on disk 1 (selected by default).

Then, before ending my work session (usually late night, meaning now…), I launch manually a backup on disk 1, swap on disk 2, and TM launches a backup. So I have twice the same backup. And TM preserves also around two months worth of backups

(each of my disks is 1 TB and my computer HD is 750 Gb, now filled up to 400 Gb.)

 

Plus : I back up manually on disks 3 and 4 all my 2008 photo works (2 x 1 Gb).

 

When disks 1 & 2 or disks 3 & 4 are full (and they fill up simultaneously, as I back up on both each time), I swap them for new ones.

 

If I ask for a specific file through Spotlight, it will give me every occurrence of that file.

 

I find more convenient to backup as a whole, without classifying, because it's easier to find one's way in a disk replica, and it saves the hassle of creating a classification system.

 

Still, I always have 2 disks with photos only, classified by year, type of work (or place of work), by camera (Leica, Hasselblad, Rollei, Nikon), or by files (from digital cam or scanned film).

 

My main concern doing so (and my IT engineer convinced me to do so) was not to waste so much time setting a backup system. To me, apart maybe Intego Backup, very system was too much time consuming, too complicated. I love Apple because it avoids me to play computing geek, which I hate.

 

Hope it helps.