Fotomiguel Posted October 21, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) One of the thing I like a lot from the new M8.2 is the new exposure compensation sistem. With our M8 we can't get it neither with the upgrade. So with my M8 if I want to compesate the exposure I have to press one time the set button to get the menu, one time the down button to get exposure compesation, another time the set menu to go into, then press up and down to change it and then another time to set it. So you have to press 4 times and the worst thing, looking at the LCD. With the new M8.2 just press the shutter half and change it. So There are 3 buttons that are useless when you are not reviewing files. Delete, protect and info buttons. Just an with easy and small change in the M8 firmware, Leica could improve that. -While pressing Delete button, quick change of the exposure compensation. (like M8.2 with the shutter) -While pressing protect button, quick change of the iso setting. -While pressing info button, quick change of the user profile. Just an idea. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Hi Fotomiguel, Take a look here Give us a quick exposure compensation, Please!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 21, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2008 There's always an issue when you have a button marked "Delete" and it's given a secondary function completely unrelated to deleting anything. It just makes the product a little less intuitive to use. I've previously suggested pressing and holding the set button (to align with what we have now) and then using the arrow buttons, say, left/right to change ISO, up/down to dial in EV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 21, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2008 Remember the time when the M6 first appeared? Some die-hard «sunny sixteen» shooters grumbled «Who needs a stinking meter?» We've come a long way. Anyway, with the M6 it was so simple. There was no compensation. You just dialed in manual over or under exposure, or you metered on a «medium grey» area and recomposed. Then, the M7 added A mode, and exposure compensation, which was already clumsy to use. Now, the M8 is even worse in that respect. Maybe Leica M and compensation aren't meant for each other, after all, and this why we have this kind of after-thought implementation. At least, we have exposure lock, so we can either shoot in manual mode, à la M6, or meter on a medium grey area, and lock, à la M7. I almost never use compensation myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 21, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2008 I really and truely do not understand what this fetish over EV compensation is. If you want to compensate the exposure use a higher or lower shutter speed, very simple to do in either manual or A mode, or LOCK the shutter speed by pressing the shutter release to it's second stop in A mode or setting the shutter speed dial to what you want and turn the aperture ring. There you have Exposure (EV/Exposure Value) Compensation and it is much faster then pressing a button and turninig a wheel. I don't know maybe it me but I don't want a M that works like a Nikon or Canon. To many buttons dials and menus to scroll through and all I really want it to take a picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 21, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 21, 2008 I don't know maybe it me but I don't want a M that works like a Nikon or Canon Nothing at all wrong with either Nikon or Canon DSLRs but I agree with the sentiment. Unfortunately the cat is already out of the bag and we are likely to continue to see feature creep with the digital M (snapshot mode being the ugliest manifestation of this trend so far). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 21, 2008 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2008 I really and truely do not understand what this fetish over EV compensation is.If you want to compensate the exposure use a higher or lower shutter speed, very simple to do in either manual or A mode, or LOCK the shutter speed by pressing the shutter release to it's second stop in A mode or setting the shutter speed dial to what you want and turn the aperture ring. There you have Exposure (EV/Exposure Value) Compensation and it is much faster then pressing a button and turninig a wheel. I don't know maybe it me but I don't want a M that works like a Nikon or Canon. To many buttons dials and menus to scroll through and all I really want it to take a picture. Hi Ed, I wouldn't call it a fetish - just a different working method. I myself use both A mode (with EV comp.) and manual. I agree that the M8 shouldn't become too complicated but I like the new EV control system and wish they would take ISO control seriously next. Then we'd have all four of the core exposure controls for a digital camera (shutter speed, aperture, EV comp. and ISO) quickly adjustable. Having used the M8 for fast paced professional work since 2006, I know that I really need all four controls to be fast and intuitive. Auto ISO is no more a substitute for fast manual ISO control than "A" mode can be a substitute for a shutter speed dial. Canon nailed ISO control with the G9. I hope others learn from that simple dial. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotomiguel Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted October 21, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that M philosophy is simplicity. If you have a control or a possibility to set the camera, do it in a simple way or make it disappear. It has no sense a control that to get there you have to press four times a button. I've never used it on the M8 but the M7 cameras has the exposure compensation so easy! I think leica has realized with the M8.2, but has forgotten the M8. Regards Miguel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 21, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 21, 2008 I think that M philosophy is simplicity. If you have a control or a possibility to set the camera, do it in a simple way... It has no sense a control that to get there you have to press four times a button. I agree with that Miguel. For that reason, for example, the ISO dial from the G9 would suit the M8 perfectly. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted October 21, 2008 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2008 I really and truely do not understand what this fetish over EV compensation is.If you want to compensate the exposure use a higher or lower shutter speed, very simple to do in either manual or A mode, or LOCK the shutter speed by pressing the shutter release to it's second stop in A mode or setting the shutter speed dial to what you want and turn the aperture ring. There you have Exposure (EV/Exposure Value) Compensation and it is much faster then pressing a button and turninig a wheel. I don't know maybe it me but I don't want a M that works like a Nikon or Canon. To many buttons dials and menus to scroll through and all I really want it to take a picture. Shootist I agree, I compensate all the time, move meter to the spot I want to use for the exposure, press the button to hold the setting, recompose, shoot. Am I missing somethin here? LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 21, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 21, 2008 Shootist I agree, I compensate all the time, move meter to the spot I want to use for the exposure, press the button to hold the setting, recompose, shoot. Am I missing somethin here? LouisB If you are, I'm missing it also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 21, 2008 Share #11 Posted October 21, 2008 Shootist I agree, I compensate all the time, move meter to the spot I want to use for the exposure, press the button to hold the setting, recompose, shoot. Am I missing somethin here? LouisB No, there are just different ways of working. I tend to look at a histogram and then meter in my head for the changes. Often I use manual but I'll use EV comp. more often now that its better designed on the M8.2. I use it often on the Canons. But the bottom line is simply that different photographers have different ways of doing things. A lot of photographers certainly do use EV comp. even though some may prefer other methods. I think the EV control change with the M8.2 is definitely an improvement. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 21, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2008 I agree, Sean, the ISO dial on the G9 is a great idea. I love it. I wouldn't go for a second dial on the top plate of the M8 for ISO setting, but how about a button next to the shutter release (I guess there is room) coupled with the thumb-wheel (à la M8.2 EV comp. if I understand well)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparobertsan Posted October 22, 2008 Share #13 Posted October 22, 2008 I do exactly as when I shoot slide. Just look for high light area then exposure lock and recompose shoot. It works fine with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted October 22, 2008 Share #14 Posted October 22, 2008 Honestly, one of my favorite features on my Nikon D3 is the ability to assign ev adjust to one of the command dials. I've assigned it to the front dial (I use the aperture ring vs command dials for my lenses) so whether I'm in A or M mode I can adjust over and under by 1/2 stops (or 1/3rds depending on your preference). And the adjustment shows up on the meter graph in the viewfinder. It's very intuitive and allows one to remain at a base exposure in a situation and quickly deviate and then return to that. Lets say you are shooting in a room that is 1/60th at f/2.8 but there is a window in the corner. Whenever the subject moves to the window just adjust the ev dial for over and then back again for when the subject moves away. Yes, one can just use the aperture or shutter speed dials but the ev reminds you that you have deviated from the base exposure of the situation. Hard to explain/justify if you've never used it but it does work. I would love to see some similar dial in the M8. The best place for it would be sticking out partially from the upper right rear deck of the camera (which would alas forfeit the use of the Thumbs Up). I do hope the M9 has some bells and whistles. Not too many but ones that are smart and intuitive (and can of course be ignored/shamed by the purists and luddites in the crowd). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted October 22, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 22, 2008 I really and truely do not understand what this fetish over EV compensation is. I don't know maybe it me but I don't want a M that works like a Nikon or Canon. To many buttons dials and menus to scroll through and all I really want it to take a picture. I tend to agree about EV compensation. That said I like the way I can set up my Nikons to suit the way I work. Leica seem in danger of loosing their way with the M8.x, they are moving away from the simplicity of the MP/M7 but are not offering the tuneability of a Nikon/Canon. Of the 3 basic exposure factors, shutter, aperture, ISO (EV comp is just a variation on the above IMHO), 1 of them is buried in a menu, and then only available in whole stops. And yet on the 8.2 we get a new snapshot exposure mode. Seems like the wrong priorities to me. Having shutter, aperture And ISO all visible all the time, and adjustable without using a menu must be a basic requirement of a 'serious' camera.....no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotomiguel Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted October 22, 2008 Shootist I agree, I compensate all the time, move meter to the spot I want to use for the exposure, press the button to hold the setting, recompose, shoot. Am I missing somethin here? LouisB I agree as well. I use the aperture prioriti metering with the spot and recomposing most of the times. I use as well manual many times. Metering and setting f and speed. But there are a couple of situations that I like EV comp: -Shooting landscape that I want to underexpose. If I use the EV comp. I will be quicker shooting because don't need to recompose and I'll be able to change aperture easily. If some birds, plane or people coming quick to the scene, and you are quick enough you'll have a nice landscape with something special on it. In this case If you meter and recompose you can be slow and if you set manual and you move a bit the direction, light can change. - Shootting people in a bright place or with a bright background. If you know how light affects the scene and you use EV comp. you can move, concentrate in the focus and change aperture and speed quickly if you like. Here an example: Zenfolio | Miguel Massanet Amer | Mallorca Camera model:NIKON D300 Focal length:180 mm Max lens aperture:f/2.8 Exposure:1/6400 at f/8 Flash:Not fired Exposure bias:-1 2/3 EV Exposure mode:Auto Exposure prog.:Aperture priority ISO speed:ISO 159 The good thing of the EV comp. is that I don't use it hardly ever, but when I use it for a special situation, has to be quick and easy to set. You may say that It was a nikon shot, but I use my nikon just with telelens and I meter the light in a similar way that my M8: meter to the spot, blocking and composing. The one different thing is I can use EV comp. so easy and quick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 22, 2008 Share #17 Posted October 22, 2008 One thing that's been puzzling me about the requests for easy exposure compensation. Using the wheel or buttons to change the compensation isn't too difficult, but given that the camera would be using the existing viewfinder display, how would you know how much compensation had been applied ( + or -), and how would you then correctly reset it to zero afterwards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotomiguel Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share #18 Posted October 22, 2008 I tend to agree about EV compensation. That said I like the way I can set up my Nikons to suit the way I work. Leica seem in danger of loosing their way with the M8.x, they are moving away from the simplicity of the MP/M7 but are not offering the tuneability of a Nikon/Canon.Of the 3 basic exposure factors, shutter, aperture, ISO (EV comp is just a variation on the above IMHO), 1 of them is buried in a menu, and then only available in whole stops. And yet on the 8.2 we get a new snapshot exposure mode. Seems like the wrong priorities to me. Having shutter, aperture And ISO all visible all the time, and adjustable without using a menu must be a basic requirement of a 'serious' camera.....no? I thing that EV comp. is a manual way to modifie the exposure. You set it and tell how much light you want to compensate. You know what you are doing and how you are doing it otherwise It doesn't work. That has nothing to do with a Automat DLRS and I think that many old cameras had this options. There was as well the possibiltity in a film camera to set a different iso: the film was 100 iso and I set the camera with 125 iso. That was a EV compensation that many great masters of photography used. In any old M camera you had this posibility. But now my M8 is modern but I can't even work (in this case) as many years ago so easily. Regards. Miguel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMB Posted October 22, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 22, 2008 Simplifying the concepts and in colloquial terms, in the beginning there were two variables to get the good exposure for a picture: aperture and shutter speed. Not ASA; one should select once and before taking 36 images. Now things have changed: Aperture, shutter speed, ISO, EV, light balance and so and so. What means that we have introduced a lot of decisions to take before each photography, unless we release to the computer of the camera to take them or part of them, by itself. Leica has always chosen to give to the photographer few variables as a personal job, I think with the intention that one mainly should have the priority of observing the subject before shutting. As soon the automatisms have been developed in cameras, Leica, step by step and much more late than competitors, has adopted them with the same philosophy: they have to work with precision but not disturbing the photographer. Aside this manner of doing things the digital “developers”, Photoshop and many more, have made possible to introduce an infinite tools and ways to use them that compete with the computer of the cameras in modify the raw pictures until the more unexpected results. The Leica users, and the Forum participants, will be always divided between the ones that forever will expect that Mr. Kauffman will put in the Leicas as many properties to adjust as Nikon, Cannon, etc. and the others that only, as me, want to achieve quality by the more simple means and automatisms. If we trust sincerely in an automatism, let it work, as now happens with the many of the inner variables, as the corrections done by the M8 with our coded lenses. But we mustn’t be slaves of the capabilities of our computerized cameras forgiving the essential tools we have on hand. We have the misfortune of not being capable to use in deepness all the possibilities we have in our cameras and the software to develop our files. For a very same problem of a picture they are in our hands dozens of alternatives and infinite combinations. Finally what all of us do is to follow a routine, customized for each one, and no more. Francisco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 22, 2008 Share #20 Posted October 22, 2008 One thing that's been puzzling me about the requests for easy exposure compensation. Using the wheel or buttons to change the compensation isn't too difficult, but given that the camera would be using the existing viewfinder display, how would you know how much compensation had been applied ( + or -), and how would you then correctly reset it to zero afterwards? I guess it goes without saying that the EV compensation amount would have to show in the VF, just like speed, exposure and exposure lock show. As for resetting to 0, again I guess a menu would give you two choices: 1) right after the shot is taken, or 2) when you set it back to 0 yourself. In a nutshell, the way it's implemented in most DSLRs. Or maybe like in the Canon G9: the compensation scale just remains there, in plain view on the LCD, so you can't miss it, and you can change comp at will. Then it goes back to 0 when you turn the camera off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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