wilfredo Posted October 18, 2008 Share #1 Posted October 18, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was reading about the latest DSLR's today and was literally amazed at all the technology they pack, especially the latest incarnation of the Canon 5D. I'm also amazed at the price. The 5D seems to have stayed about the same as the original 5D for way more technology. Leica is obviously not able to do this. Once there is an improvement with a Leica the price goes up significantly, ie. the M8.2. I wonder how much longer Leica will survive as a nitch market? I guess as long as it doesn't focus on becoming a major player, it will stay alive as the small company that it is. I'm O.K. with that, but if a DSLR is in the cards for Leica, it will have a lot of catching up to do. Can it? Will it? How much will it cost? $12,000.00? Cheers, Wilfredo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 Hi wilfredo, Take a look here Latest DSLR's. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted October 18, 2008 Share #2 Posted October 18, 2008 Not sure if Leica users need all those gadgets actually. Just bought a Canon 5D and its a great camera with my R lenses yet. Just give me the same or a smaller body w/o stop down metering and i will be happy then. But i won't spend more for the R10 than for the then digital M anyway. At $12K Leica would not sell more bodies than $15K "middle" S2s IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 18, 2008 Share #3 Posted October 18, 2008 LCT, the 5D is an excellent camera, but it my case it doesn't have that certain 'something' that the M8 has. One thing to watch out for with the 5D when using non-coupled lenses such as the R ones is that the image will tend to over expose as you stop down. Try taking a shot in aperture priority with the lens wide open and then take photographs with the lens stopped down a stop at a time. You'll see them get brighter as the aperture gets smaller. To counteract that I used to shoot raw and dial in -2/3 exposure compensation. Otherwise there was a tendency for the highlights to be slightly blown at small apertures. One other thing, I found a Brightscreen helped with focussing - in particular the microprism collar on the screen, and to a lesser extent the split rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 18, 2008 Share #4 Posted October 18, 2008 Yes the 5D2 looks a real bargain. And I think that in the present financial climate the prices are going to come down further. Leica has been going in the other direction ever since the M8 was introduced (and maybe before I dont know). I know Leica's cost base is higher but I still dont get why its cost base seems to be getting ever higher as time goes by? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted October 18, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 18, 2008 The sapphire glas from the M8.2 alone costs several hundred Euros in production! A full-frame-Sensor with 21MP costs about as much in production as a 12MP-sensor, it's the same with image processors etc. Canon "just" needs to pay for R&D. The 5D / 5DII are quite simple amateur cameras from their mechanical design, that's why the 1ds always costs much more (even if it uses similar electronics). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 18, 2008 Share #6 Posted October 18, 2008 Steve I asked that before. We are now saying stopped down does effect metering as the exposure algorithms figure the amount of light is coming from a wide open lens at the instant you press the shutter release? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 18, 2008 Share #7 Posted October 18, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Steve I asked that before. We are now saying stopped down does effect metering as the exposure algorithms figure the amount of light is coming from a wide open lens at the instant you press the shutter release? Are you going to leave this post here for longer than 5 minutes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 18, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 18, 2008 We are now saying stopped down does effect metering... It does with the 5D. There seems to be an issue if there's no electrical connection between body and lens. Some of the pro bodies allow you to specify the lens's maximum aperture and this allows the metering to work correctly with uncoupled lenses. That isn't the case on the 5D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 18, 2008 Share #9 Posted October 18, 2008 ...One thing to watch out for with the 5D when using non-coupled lenses such as the R ones is that the image will tend to over expose as you stop down.... To counteract that I used to shoot raw and dial in -2/3 exposure compensation. Otherwise there was a tendency for the highlights to be slightly blown at small apertures.One other thing, I found a Brightscreen helped with focussing - in particular the microprism collar on the screen, and to a lesser extent the split rangefinder. Hi Steve thanks i've bought the inexpensive EE-s focus screen in the first place. Not that bright for sure but i shoot at fast apertures generally and the 'AF confirm' works very well with it. In fact i did not expect that it is so accurate with my sometimes early Leica lenses. Also i was surprised to retrieve some of the qualities of the Epsons with the 5D: no plasticky look at all and the sensor is not only more than reasonably sharp but it respects very well the character of the lenses. The R10 will certainly be better but at the price i've got it (€1.5K new) the 5D is hardly beatable IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted October 18, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 18, 2008 Let's see how long the latest and greatest Canon holds up, or how it takes before it is replaced. Canon has an economy of scale to absorb costs 'higher-end' products. It's pretty much a given that a 5D (version whatever) will not be in the same league as an R10. I've read some of the reviews and it's all so 'tech-happy', with buttons, menus and features to keep you forever dizzy and away from the focusing on the image. Canon and Leica have completely different philosophies when it comes to design, function, product longevity and compatibility. It would be nice to think that the R10 will be cost competitive with a 5, but it won't be. It be somewhere around the 1Ds v.III or the Nikon D3, but maybe higher. I'm concerned about digging up the money for it as well. To be honest, if I could, I would like the S2 and the 24mm equivalent lens and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted October 18, 2008 I would love to see an R10 with an image sensor in league with the M8 but I dread to think of what it will cost. I don't care much for the bells and whistles however a weather proof camera with image stabilization and a sensor that is dust resistant would be really nice. I don't have any R lenses and I'm wondering if someone can post some R lens pictures using the 5D? I also shoot with a 5D but not quite as satisfied with it for my B&W shots of people. Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 18, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 18, 2008 Let's see how long the latest and greatest Canon holds up, or how it takes before it is replaced. Well the 5D took 4 years to be replaced. The 1Ds2 was also around 4 years. Now that Nikon has FF sensors we may well see a speeding up of model releases. But like we say here the M8 still works even though we have an M8.2 and the 5D still works. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 18, 2008 Share #13 Posted October 18, 2008 The sapphire glas from the M8.2 alone costs several hundred Euros in production! A full-frame-Sensor with 21MP costs about as much in production as a 12MP-sensor, it's the same with image processors etc. Canon "just" needs to pay for R&D. The 5D / 5DII are quite simple amateur cameras from their mechanical design, that's why the 1ds always costs much more (even if it uses similar electronics). I know the saphire glass is expensive, but it really is not essential. The 'quite simple' 5D by the way has a shutter guaranteed for 100,000 actuations and I expect that if one was taken to pieces the internals would be rather sophisticated compared to the M8. if Canon, with any of its recent DSLRs, had experienced the failure rate that the M8 has had, well we could imagine the corporate damage incurred. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted October 18, 2008 Share #14 Posted October 18, 2008 One thing to watch out for with the 5D when using non-coupled lenses such as the R ones is that the image will tend to over expose as you stop down. Try taking a shot in aperture priority with the lens wide open and then take photographs with the lens stopped down a stop at a time. You'll see them get brighter as the aperture gets smaller. Metering errors are also common with Olympus E cameras when using adapted legacy lenses and IIRC the Pentax bodies had some of the same, at least with early bodies. I didn't experience this with the Konica-Minolta 5D. Ir the R10 is backwards compatible and they say it is, this will be one problem they (or we) will have to deal with. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 18, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 18, 2008 ...I don't have any R lenses and I'm wondering if someone can post some R lens pictures using the 5D?... Want to see my boring old clock again? Just one pic otherwise i'll be fired by Andy right now. The colors are not out hopefully as i'm on an old monitor here. (Canon 5D, 3-cam Summicron 90/2, f/2.8, 400 iso, 1/30s, handheld, tungsten, raw developped with C1-4, noise reduction disabled, medium setting of Fred Miranda's Canon CS Pro, FF and 100% crop) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/65787-latest-dslrs/?do=findComment&comment=688479'>More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share #16 Posted October 18, 2008 Nice clock shots. Thanks for posting these. Anyone have any B&W people shots using a 5D with R lenses? Cheers, Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbopple Posted October 18, 2008 Share #17 Posted October 18, 2008 hrmmm.... ...let's see I have a Suzki DRZ400S (dual sport motorcycle) which cost me new about $4800. It's a great reliable bike, but it's not a BMW G450X. The Beamer is also twice the money and many people would say that the Suzuki will be more than fine for 90% of the people out there (which is true for me). I'd still rather have the Beamer, even though I don't need it. Same deal for my wife's 328xi...not only does it blow away anything Japanese in size and performance, being in the car gives you a measure of confidence you're not going to get elsewhere. A person who buys a Leica is making a statement about themselves and what they want to do - because nobody really needs a Leica, like nobody really needs a [insert german car brand of choice]. But if a person could have a Leica you know they would probably take it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted October 18, 2008 Share #18 Posted October 18, 2008 A person who buys a Leica is making a statement about themselvesI think this is about you. No-one knows Leica exept a small sub-culture of camera lovers. One of my non-photography inclined friends asked what sort of lens my M8 had as he did not even know that Leica makes lenses (or indeed that Leica was a camera brand). When I said Leica he seemed disappointed - I guess he was expecting Zeiss. Fine with me, I want to use it for making pictures not as a fashion statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DuquesneG Posted October 18, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 18, 2008 the 5D is an excellent camera, but it my case it doesn't have that certain 'something' that the M8 has. Easily remedied, at least in the US. Leica-USA will send peel-and-stick red dots for the asking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted October 18, 2008 Share #20 Posted October 18, 2008 Digital photography | Me no Leica any more | The Economist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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