stunsworth Posted September 25, 2008 Share #21 Posted September 25, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is another funny mistake on their new S2 site. Instead of "medium format", it mentions "middle format"... I don't think it's a mistake, I think it's deliberate, By middle format they mean a camera with a sensor whose size is between a full frame DSLR and a digital MF camera. They're trying to define a new market segment of cameras with 35mm handling and MF/near MF quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here R10 smaller than R9?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frankbernhard Posted September 25, 2008 Share #22 Posted September 25, 2008 I dont’t think it’s marketing. They clearly refer to the medium format: »As large as some middle format sensors, …« I guess the translator who did the job for Leica is not familiar with all the specific terms in photography. »Middle format« is a appropriate translation for the german word »Mittelformat«. They shoul’d have checked the translator’s work more properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted September 25, 2008 Share #23 Posted September 25, 2008 There is another funny mistake on their new S2 site. Instead of "medium format", it mentions "middle format", which just made me crack up, but also made me realize that Leica does not know this segment. Even if they design a great camera, the S2, there are still hurdles to be overcome. I really hope they fix this typo fast. Maybe it isn't a typo, afterall 30mm X 45mm is ½ the area of 645, so it isn't quite medium and it isn't quite small either.....sort of in the middle. They should just call it 345..... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbernhard Posted September 25, 2008 Share #24 Posted September 25, 2008 They should just call it 345Bob Not a bad idea. They call it Leica Pro Format instead. I bet this "middle" is a typo. It’s a wrong translation. By the way, medium format is called medium format because of it is quite bigger than 35 mm but smaller than large format, it is in the middle of the other ones. How confusing if someone would create a new format that is situated in the middle between another format that is situated in the middle between … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 25, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 25, 2008 There is another funny mistake on their new S2 site. Instead of "medium format", it mentions "middle format", which just made me crack up, but also made me realize that Leica does not know this segment. Even if they design a great camera, the S2, there are still hurdles to be overcome. I really hope they fix this typo fast. I believe that was intended. The S2 chip is smaller than medium format (6.45 - 6x9), but bigger than full frame. The sensor is larger but has the same aspect ratio as the 135 format, that Leica of course invented. Anyone remember the127 film format? Bigger than 135, but smaller than 6x4.5. If you look at the design of the S2 vs a medium format back, it appears that Leica may have locked itself in to this new format for some time. The mirror box is designed around the size of the sensor and I'm not sure how easy it would be to support a bigger format. Most medium format cameras like the H3 and Mamiya bodies can in theory support sensors up to 6x7 in size. The S2 can't. So, I believe that Leica truly intends this to be an in between format and it's not just a typo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 25, 2008 Share #26 Posted September 25, 2008 Marketting efforts to legitimate a new niche or the Coue method applied to photography: I need bigger and dearer, I need bigger and dearer, I need bigger and dearer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbernhard Posted September 25, 2008 Share #27 Posted September 25, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) So, I believe that Leica truly intends this to be an in between format and it's not just a typo. Hm, time will proof. But this is so typical. I’m working as a designer for a german company that sells worldwide. They print every sheet of product information in at least five different languages. As I told, appropriate but in terms of business-relation wrong translations are quite common. No professional translator is used to all the special stuff they have to deal with every day. And middle format is an appropriate translation for »Mittelformat«, the german term for medium format. If it is a marketing thing, they would have used another word than »Mittelformat« in german too, and that’s not the case. Another hint: When they mention the »middle format sensors«, they are talking about their competitor’s sensors, not their own with the new middle-medium-thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 25, 2008 Share #28 Posted September 25, 2008 How confusing if someone would create a new format that is situated in the middle between another format that is situated in the middle between … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes. I believe that is called Zeno's Paradox: Actually I used the term "middle format" before Leica's public revelations, in referring to the "larger than full-frame" rumors. Anyway - if the S2 is the size of of a D700, than sure I'd expect the R(digital) to be more on the scale of an R7 than an R8, but perhaps with the curves and grip of an R8/9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted September 26, 2008 Share #29 Posted September 26, 2008 It'd definitely not a typo, or a reference to "half way" between 35mm and 6x6. Just a translation. I see it all the time. Even on Amazon.com... Amazon.com: Hasselblad 503CW - Middle format camera - medium - body only - black: Camera & Photo Cheers, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canfred Posted September 26, 2008 Share #30 Posted September 26, 2008 It seems most of the posts are in favor of R8/9 shape for the coming R10. I count 11 against 8 some I omitted , actually I think my R9 is the most ergonomically correct design ever produced so my vote and desire goes to the R9 making it a solid 12. Cheers Manfred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 26, 2008 Share #31 Posted September 26, 2008 As I said in another thread, the thing to do for Leica, to sidestep a head-on confrontation with Canon and Nikon which they cannot but lose, is to position the R10 as a mini-S2. That means it must look like the S2 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted September 26, 2008 Share #32 Posted September 26, 2008 make it 13.... there'a an old saying where i used to work....Don;t F**k with Fritos, it works ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 26, 2008 Share #33 Posted September 26, 2008 If the sensor will eventually fit into the M9 as well, I would suppose that it could easily fit into something along the size of the R7.... No R10 sensor will ever be used in an M camera. Any FF M sensor will need an entirely different arrangement of microlenses—unless of course we then have a complertely different optical technology. But I think that even with a Fresnel plate, the plates themselves would have to be different. The old man from the Age of Glass Plates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJLogan Posted September 28, 2008 Share #34 Posted September 28, 2008 If the R10 is no bigger than the R9 with no winder or DMR attached, I'll be sorely tempted to jump the Digilux 3 ship in favor of a "real" Leica. If it's significantly smaller than the R9 with no winder or DMR attached, I'll be first in line to put down a deposit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted September 29, 2008 Share #35 Posted September 29, 2008 I dont’t think it’s marketing. They clearly refer to the medium format: »As large as some middle format sensors, …« I guess the translator who did the job for Leica is not familiar with all the specific terms in photography. »Middle format« is a appropriate translation for the german word »Mittelformat«. They shoul’d have checked the translator’s work more properly. The translator that did the job for Leica is very familiar with photography terminology and a Leica user. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 29, 2008 Share #36 Posted September 29, 2008 The problem is, as long as I use film, the ROM lenses won't have a mechanical back-up body except the 6's. As I'm relatively sure (as Leica has told me anyway) that an SL2 or mirror modified SL won't work with them. Talk to Don Goldberg about that The SL can be modified to use many of the ROM lenses, and I'll bet the mirror modification can make them all usable. I have one ROM-compatible SL and one ROM lens. What a treat to see what the 180 APO-Elmarit-R looks like through the SL's viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 29, 2008 Share #37 Posted September 29, 2008 I prefer the R4-style cameras to the R8/R9 when I just have the camera with a small lens in my hand. However, with a large lens on it, like the 180 Cron, the R8 ergonomics blow away the smaller cameras. I was shocked to discover this in the Leica store, as I have been one of the people calling for a more R6-like R10. Now I think I would prefer something closer to the R8/R9 (maybe a bit prettier though). The size of the R4 would be fine with me as long as its shape is more like the R8/9. I can't get a good grip on the R4 with a larger lens, it feels like it's going to slip out of my grip like if I were to squeeze a wet watermelon seed (don't get me started on the winder/motor hand grip!). FWIW I thought the R8 was hideous until I had it in my hands, and the ergonomic design of the R8 with DMR is excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 29, 2008 Share #38 Posted September 29, 2008 The translator that did the job for Leica is very familiar with photography terminology and a Leica user. And a native English speaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 29, 2008 Share #39 Posted September 29, 2008 We can pray. I still have two newish R6, two new R6.2, two new R7. The R8/9 turned me off. One 6.2 is a chrome ordered by a small dealer and I got it just before the 8 was announced so it was the last of them. Chrome is rare and this one has about 10 rolls thru it. It was a three month wait for it. You don`t see them because I will not sell as they can not be replaced. Considering the size of all the other digi slr, I suppose the R10 will be a monster too . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share #40 Posted September 29, 2008 Talk to Don Goldberg about that The SL can be modified to use many of the ROM lenses, and I'll bet the mirror modification can make them all usable. I have one ROM-compatible SL and one ROM lens. What a treat to see what the 180 APO-Elmarit-R looks like through the SL's viewfinder. I remember that the 21-35 R zoom I had on my R8 and Motor was fine..........but I wanted to use it on an SLmot or SL2mot and I was told (repeatedly) that it couldn't be done. I still didn't believe it but after a while, who do you believe? I was bummed - that was to be my dream outfit. I tried it on an R6.2 but it just wasn't as nice a camera as the SL's......now, if someone tells me it can be done I'll scream! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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