t024484 Posted September 23, 2008 Share #1  Posted September 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am to blame that I loaded a corrupted update file on my M8. So my camera had to be sent to Solms, hoping and praying that Leica had some secret trick to do a fresh reload of the software. But this function does not seem to be available for the M8, since the quote I received from Leica shows that they will have to replace the board with the flash memory,  There is obviously no such software reload provision, like most PC,s, Cell phones etc have, which enables a forced download by means of fixed software, stored in a separate ROM or an isolated part of the existing flash memory, and since the flash memory is not socketed, they cannot change the flash memory either.  What surprises me even more, is that Leica´s Quote shows that the sensor has to be newly adjusted, aswell as the shutter, and the exposure measurement and and and ? The board with the flash memory costs 196,- Euro ex VAT, but there is 451,- Euro on Labour. All things add up to a total of 830,- Euro  So it was a very expensive error that I have made. To my opinion here is room for future improvement, also leading to offloading Leica´s service dept, unless they welcome this kind of revenue generation. It is like driving a car without safety belts, airbags and bumpers. As long as you don´t have an accident, you won´t miss them.  Hans  Notwendige Arbeiten 450,92 Eingangsprüfung elektronisches Bauteil instandsetzen Sensorlage justieren Verschlußzeiten regulieren Belichtungsmesser justieren E-Messer justieren E-Messer reinigen Gesamtabstimmung Notwendige Materialien Leiterplatte 196,03 Belederung 10,36 Prüf/Logistikkosten 40,00 Mehrwertsteuer 19,0 % _______________________ Endbetrag in EUR 829,80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Hi t024484, Take a look here M8 and corrupted software. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 23, 2008 Share #2 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Well, the shuttertimes seem to be out of adjustment and the exposure meter too, but I agree, an expensive mistake. That they need to align the sensor after exchanging the motherboard seems logical. There has been a type change of motherboard. Maybe the new motherboard handles exposure values differently. Â I had HP laptop once, quite a nice one too. The thing had a password on the motherboard. Somehow it lost its memory and alledged it couldn't enter the password (which I of course had not set in the first place). Not even HP could reset the thing, only replace the motherboard at horrendous cost and I had to bin it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted September 23, 2008 Share #3 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Is this not covered under the 2-year warranty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #4  Posted September 23, 2008 Is this not covered under the 2-year warranty? It does not seem to be the case. The quote starts by saying that I have probably not waited long enough before starting the download. This is suposedly written to free them from any liability.  Achtung! Vermutlich wurde die verlangte Wartezeit beim Update nicht eingehalten. Die Boards der Kamera wurden dadurch beschädigt.  I have asked them what the upgrade to the new shutter will cost if they combine it with this repair, since they are allmost halfway. Maybe I can get something positive out of this nightmare.  Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted September 23, 2008 Share #5 Â Posted September 23, 2008 I'm very surprised the firmware loader routines in the camera don't appear to check the validity of the update file before doing anything irretrievable. That's almost rule #1 in software development where a bad update can "brick" the hardware. If it's true then Leica should be sent to the naughty corner with no dinner. Â I'd much rather suspect the update file was OK and something else caused the system to crash before the update was completed successfully. If you've ever had Windows updates not installing because of cryptographic file check failures you realize just how secure the system can be made. Â There's an interesting thing about the fact that after updating with the latest M8 firmware you cannot go back to an earlier version. Presumably Leica is accessing a new part of memory which was never addressed with the old firmware. Hence the old firmware is never able to overwrite it. Â Bob. Â ETA: I see Hans added the information about waiting while I was typing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted September 23, 2008 Share #6 Â Posted September 23, 2008 I had the same problem with the 2.0 update. Loaded the firmware on a fresh formatted card (format in camera). Put card in camera with fresh battery. Turned it on. New firmware detected and asked if I wanted to update. Counted to 5 then pressed ok. Notification bar moved slowly across to 100% then nothing happened. I let the camera sit for between 10-15 minutes but it just sat there. Finaly tried some of the buttons etc but nothing and had to shut the power off. From that point on it was dead. Sent it to NJ waiting on news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Share #7 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hans was using his HACKED firmware when this happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 23, 2008 Share #8  Posted September 23, 2008 It does not seem to be the case.The quote starts by saying that I have probably not waited long enough before starting the download. This is suposedly written to free them from any liability.  Achtung! Vermutlich wurde die verlangte Wartezeit beim Update nicht eingehalten. Die Boards der Kamera wurden dadurch beschädigt.  I have asked them what the upgrade to the new shutter will cost, if they combine it with this repair, since they are allmost halfway. Maybe I can get something positive out of this nightmare.  Hans  Don't you have a witness to testify you waited? I even had Leica reverse a negative guarantee decision on my unsupported word. A C-Lux 1 with an AF issue had a dent as well. No guarantee "Fallschaden". I mailed that the camera had worked perfectly for months with the dent (which was true btw) and they repaired it under guarantee without a murmur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 23, 2008 Share #9 Â Posted September 23, 2008 I am to blame that I loaded a corrupted update file on my M8. So my camera had to be sent to Solms, hoping and praying that Leica had some secret trick to do a fresh reload of the software. Â Hans, Â This is the second (or third) message with a similar problem since firmware 2.000 is available. Â Besides, in previous firmware updates some cameras died. Some people have complained here about it... Â I always reset the device (camera, computer, etc.) to the default values before a firmware update... there's no particular or scientific reason for that, just a personal tradition. After flashing my two M8s with firmware 2.000, I went to the "MENU" to configure my cameras as usual. Â I realized that I couldn't see the focal lenth of my lenses after upgrading to version 2.000. Lens detection was ON with UV/IR filters... but I couldn't see the focal lenth. Â I decided to try flashing my cameras a second time from scratch: I downloaded the file again from Leica's Web site and I used a brand new card... and this time everything was fine. Â As I used the same SD card to flash both cameras (I locked the SD card to avoid the camera delete the file after flashing), I thought that I got a corrupted file or the SD card was defective. Â In fact, now I wonder if this was really my fault or if some cameras behave different. I know this is not very rational but this is not the first time that, at least, one of my M8s give me a problem with a firmware flash. For the moment, I've been always able to recover the camera with a second flash. Â I don't know what to think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted September 23, 2008 Share #10 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Where does it say his firmware was hacked? I see where he says it was corrupted but even then how would you know if it was corrupted. If it downloads fine and unzips fine then it should be ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Share #11  Posted September 23, 2008 Hans, This is the second (or third) message with a similar problem since firmware 2.000 is available.  Art this has nothing to do with the new firmware. This happen to Hans a few weeks ago while he was loading 1.201 firmware that he had made changes to. He made a coding error and it bricked the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Share #12 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Where does it say his firmware was hacked? I see where he says it was corrupted but even then how would you know if it was corrupted. If it downloads fine and unzips fine then it should be ok. Because he sent me versions of it before he made the coding error that caused this problem. I doubt you will find any threads on the subject because they were removed. I'm a long time, daily, viewer and poster to this forum. Hans sorry to hear this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted September 23, 2008 Share #13 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Art this has nothing to do with the new firmware. This happen to Hans a few weeks ago while he was loading 1.201 firmware that he had made changes to. He made a coding error and it bricked the camera. Â Ah ok I thought he was loading 2.0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 23, 2008 Share #14 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Art this has nothing to do with the new firmware. This happen to Hans a few weeks ago while he was loading 1.201 firmware that he had made changes to. He made a coding error and it bricked the camera. Â It rings the bell... but I haven't really followed the forum for about two months. I was on holidays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted September 23, 2008 Share #15 Â Posted September 23, 2008 Hans was using his HACKED firmware when this happened. If it's possible to load hacked firmware, either the hacker has been able to make the modified code meet the checking requirements - or Leica doesn't check! Â Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 23, 2008 Share #16  Posted September 23, 2008 Some of the info is here  I do not recall that we ever got feedback about the decision to temporarily hide the thread from Leica (as was announced by Andy), see this post . So what was the final outcome?  Does the above mean that: i - you can fry the mainboard by not waiting for 3 seconds during the FW upgrade? If so - I doubt if damage caused by accidentally not adhering to this would be exempt from warranty. It is like GM telling us if you start the engine before waiting 3 seconds your car will blow up. ii - there is no possibility to do a 'hard reset' & reprogramme the firmware? (the equivalent of cntrl-alt-del or hard reboot) if so that is a software design error and any cost resulting from Leica's decision not to include a backdoor should fall under warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 23, 2008 Share #17 Â Posted September 23, 2008 as was announced by Andy Oops sorry Andreas, I was working from memory - wrong name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Share #18  Posted September 23, 2008 Some of the info is here  I do not recall that we ever got feedback about the decision to temporarily hide the thread from Leica (as was announced by Andy), see this post . So what was the final outcome?  Does the above mean that: i - you can fry the mainboard by not waiting for 3 seconds during the FW upgrade? If so - I doubt if damage caused by accidentally not adhering to this would be exempt from warranty. It is like GM telling us if you start the engine before waiting 3 seconds your car will blow up. ii - there is no possibility to do a 'hard reset' & reprogramme the firmware? (the equivalent of cntrl-alt-del or hard reboot) if so that is a software design error and any cost resulting from Leica's decision not to include a backdoor should fall under warranty. What it means is Hans made a mistake when adding or changing something in the firmware. When that badly, wrongly, coded firmware was loaded on the camera the update failed leavingthe camera dead. The camera did not know how to deal with the bad, wrong, code and could not continue. It has nothing to do with waiting 3 second. As far as I know all other failures, for whatever reason, from loading the correct, Leica written, firmware has been covered under warranty and that Leica could restore the camera. I have no idea how they restored them, there must be a way to write code, the correct code, to the camera to begin with. So I would suspect Leica has the tools (software) and hardware to reflash the ROM chip. But in Hans case the wrong code was written to the chip. That could of totally corrupted the chip and stop Leica from having any access to it, that is just speculation. Or Leica saw his threads on hacking the firmware and is charging him for replacing a board instead of trying to re-program it. No on will ever know except Leica service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 24, 2008 Share #19  Posted September 24, 2008 Leica says: Achtung! Vermutlich wurde die verlangte Wartezeit beim Update nicht eingehalten. Die Boards der Kamera wurden dadurch beschädigt.  So "It has nothing to do with waiting 3 second" may be true in this specific case (corrupt firmware) but I find the Leica disclaimer to be somewhat worrysome: "If you do not stick to the 3 second waiting time the boards in the camera may become damaged" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted September 24, 2008 Share #20  Posted September 24, 2008 Surely if you can damage the camera by not waiting 3 seconds the software should be written so that nothing can happen until the 3 seconds is up even if you try?  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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