Leica Digital CL Poll

[tomasis7]

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APS-C ? Until now, alien to Leica digital strategy...

Micro 4/3 working on Panasonic G base ? What if 4/3 proves definitely a lemon ....?

M8 format, given that M goes towards FF ? Probably savviest choice, but you have to wait for M FF intro, otherwise you risk cannibalization of the M customer base, potential important customer set for M9....

 

 

I thought a lot about it. As you say, where to buy APS-C sensors? As far we have seen that Leica use Kodak sensors on S2, R DMR, M8. So they might prefer use micro 4/3 for low end collaborating with Panasonic instead (like they did with minolta at CL times) then they could sell bodies at attractive prices (japanese price and body)

 

I thought of owning p&s camera like Ricoh GR-d2, Fuji F60 or new improved sensor from fuji. I actually liked what I saw in the new Olympus prototype. I needed like Barnack format camera. Olympus has LCD half size of the whole body. Yeah, finally!! So I could hold the camera comfortably. Micro 4/3 sensor is not bad, just look how big sensor E-3 has? It would be nice if Leica could produce compact lenses for 4/3 format too, like as compact primes.

 

I dont really like EVF, so I would love optical VF. I dont mind if it lacks coupling because due 4/3 sensor and wide dof, it is easier to use than analog Rollei 35e.

 

I recently did read that it did cost $1800 to repair the damaged sensor in M8 body. So that expensive sensor in CL is too early now so we need wait 3-5 years. The question is that if Kodak is willing to continue to produce customized 1,33x sensor at cheaper prices in longer future? Or just shut down old sensor and move on producing new sensors?

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[tomasis7]

As you like Tomasis but take a look at what Howard said in my link above. He was a Leica rep then.

 

If we use facts, I dont deny that CL saved Leica because they got sweet cash But why did we see upgraded, improved M bodies instead of CL if CL was one which saved Leica?

 

Or it was the time when SLR did big impact and people felt get bored with "big" rangefinders and wanted buy CL as pocket camera along with SLR with zooms when they go out in trips?

[John Thawley]

I'm puzzled by the frequently posted notion that if Leica offers anything at a lower cost it will erode the M8 customer base. Why? Is the M8 not worth the money. Is it not a good product? Are their that many owners begrudgingly buying it though they feel it's over priced?

 

I don't get it.

 

IF the M8 is doing its job, there will be no erosion of its customer base. In fact, with an "introductory" model rangefinder, the fact is, the future M8 or its sucessor will ultimately sell more and grow its customer base.

 

If there was a Leica rangefinder that had the Leica brand promise and all that comes with Leica ownership, you would begin to build NEW customers for life. I dare say that Leica is probably losing more customers to old age than it is capturing with products like the S2.

 

How often do you hear of someone investing in a new body because "well, I already have a lot of lenses that will work with it."?

 

I'm sure it's got some pros and cons that everyone will nit-pick into the next centruy, but take a camera like the Epson R-D1. What if you put it in front of the designers and asked, "how can we make this camera our own and keep the price around $3000.? The parameters are; It should evoke pride of ownership and it should take wonderful pictures while providing an emotional picture taking experience. It should use M lenses. It should incorporate stable technology but it should NOT take on every new G10, CoolPic 6000 or Sigma DP2 in an 18 month cycle.

 

Lastly, it should build allegiance that will keep its owner as a member of a GROWING Leica family. How do you do that? By giving people a camera that steps out of the model of the month game and gives its owner equity that will allow him to trade up.

 

Just an opinon... I could be wrong.

[lct]

If we use facts, I dont deny that CL saved Leica because they got sweet cash But why did we see upgraded, improved M bodies instead of CL if CL was one which saved Leica?...

Just suggested that the CL saved Leica 30 years ago, happy to see that you agree now. About the reasons of the CL's demise, see CameraQuest - Leica CL.

[luigi bertolotti]

Just suggested that the CL saved Leica 30 years ago, happy to see that you agree now. About the reasons of the CL's demise, see CameraQuest - Leica CL.

 

Thanks, lct, interesting link, and a story interpreted in depth... mid '70s were probably the worst years in Leitz history... RFs market slowing just after investiments in a new model (M5), SLRs in ramp-up EXCEPT the Leica SL line... and all this into a still "family business"... terrible years for Deutsche Photo Industry (Zeiss Ikon closed in '73-'74, IIRC, my Contarex is from '72...).

CL maybe hasn't been a really succesful camera at that times, maybe is impossible to say, without proper financial figures, if it saved or no Leica... but surely was a well done attempt to survive in a awful moment... and the fact that it's still an appreciated item (I've one, of course... ) proves that is a product that anyway helped a lot the Company.

[tomasis7]

Just suggested that the CL saved Leica 30 years ago, happy to see that you agree now. About the reasons of the CL's demise, see CameraQuest - Leica CL.

 

yeah it is financially but not from strategy, philosophy viewpoint.

 

After M4, it came M4-2, M4-P, M6 and TTL, MP, M7

 

it applies R serie lines. Now next is S2 (S1)

 

but CL was only one camera without successors from 30 years ago. So I suppose Leica think of the same customers when they produced CM, Minilux now Digilux, C-lux, Dlux. I see Dlux as perfect replacement to CL.

 

RF market is small. Especially when it comes to analogue. Now for digital, M8 is the only selling camera in the world.

[mac_wt]

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One for me, please.

[jbstitt]

I too had a CL stolen and replaced it with the CLE and still have it. Liked the CL better though. That said, I hope some people at Leica and Panasonic are still talking about the technology of the G1 to incorporate that into a CL like camera. I would buy that in a minute - I think, maybe, could be good, I want to see a G1, and I want Leica to modify it - maybe. Of course, I am one of the diehards still hoping for a Digilux 2 Mark II.

[rsolomon]

I see Dlux as perfect replacement to CL.

 

 

 

Agreed, the Dlux 4 is a "system camera"

Leica Camera AG - Photography - D-LUX 4

[lct]

Agreed, the Dlux 4 is a "system camera"

Leica Camera AG - Photography - D-LUX 4

So no M lenses for it any more?

[veraikon]

I think, maybe, could be good, I want to see a G1, and I want Leica to modify it - maybe.

Modify it for yourself. Wait till chinese backyard workshops are manufacturing adaptors µFt -> Leica M .

At Photokina it is possible to "handle" with a G1. You can focus it manually with the EVF (it is possible to "mirror" some magnification (in B&W) of the centre of the frame). It is not the fastest method - and not so comfortable like a traditional VF- but it works. So it will be possible - if the adaptors are avialable- to use M-lenses.

The "list -price" of the will be under 600 - street price under 500 . Plus 100 for an adaptor.

It may be an interim solution till the "original" dCL will appear. As far as I know the Leica time line is summer 2009 "S2" ; R10 end of 2009 - spring 2010, so the M9 & dCL might be something for PK 2010.

[tomasis7]

So no M lenses for it any more?

 

I dont see reasons that LEICA DC VARIO-SUMMICRON lens 1:2.0-2.8/5.1-12.8 ASPH would perform MUCH worse than CV primes when "targeted customers" want anything cheap below Leica prices.

 

F2-2.8 and 24-60mm sounds sweet! Fov 24 is enough good reason for me to hook up Why not new Digilux 4 and 4/3 primes or adapters for M mount as somebody said above. EVF (lcd) technology can improve many times further so Olympus idea of compact 4/3 can be good in future.

[tomasis7]

I still have CV 25 mm VF so I would use this on Dlux. Yeah it is system camera according to Leica

 

 

24fov DOF and tiny sensor combination gives plenty of dof. I like the idea of Majoli photography. A lot dof

[Guest rontr6]

I would buy one, but only if the finish was a lot more robust than the original.

Ron

[rsolomon]

i actually wonder whta Leica means by system camera as if realtes to the DLux 4. Do you think there is more coming ?

[lct]

I dont see reasons that LEICA DC VARIO-SUMMICRON lens 1:2.0-2.8/5.1-12.8 ASPH would perform MUCH worse than CV primes...

Why would a PanaLeica zoom lens perform much worse that a CV lens?

I don't know if it is worse or much worse but it is not a prime lens made for 35mm cameras, it's as simple like that.

Suffice it to compare distorsion for instance.

Now you're comparing apples and oranges Tomasis.

Remember that all small sensor cameras have a huge DoF.

Except in macro mode, impossible to get some decent optical blur with them.

We don't want that for 'true' Leica cameras do we.

At least i don't.