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Zeiss/Leica and grey market...


albertwang

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Just noted that Stephen Gandy is unable to sell the Zeiss ZM/ZF lenses as an attempt by Zeiss to clamp down on grey market products. Very depressing as Gandy has been awesome to teach people that these fine things exist.

 

I wonder to what extent Leica and gray market stuff get along. I really don't know much about the Hong Kong stuff to be honest :)

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I found it interesting there is a recent price decline for new M lenses from trusted authorized Leica dealers in Hong Kong. At least, that happens for a number of models, examples are,

 

75/2 AA Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 3,495

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,730

 

35/2 Asph Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 2,095

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,600

 

And these are not grey market items...:rolleyes:

 

Matthew

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You Adorama price for the 75/2 is wrong - it's showing as $2695, the price you have is for the 1.4.

 

Even so, there are useful savings to be made, though depending on where you are, shipping and import duty and sales tax narrow the difference.

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I found it interesting there is a recent price decline for new M lenses from trusted authorized Leica dealers in Hong Kong. At least, that happens for a number of models, examples are,

 

75/2 AA Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 3,495

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,730

 

35/2 Asph Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 2,095

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,600

 

And these are not grey market items...:rolleyes:

 

Matthew

 

They may not be grey market to you, but they are for people not in Hong Kong.

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“75/2 AA Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 3,495

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,730”

 

If the actual selling price is this high ($3495), I don’t see how this differential can continue to exist. What possible rational (realistic, not something a marketing person dreams up, like a warranty or whatever) can justify this differential?

 

I encountered a similar situation with a piano recently. The price in the UK is $104,000. In the US it is $180,000. Guess where people are now going to buy their pianos?

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Since I put my name on my favorite dealers list for the M8 on Wednesday, I need to start accumulating a few M lenses. I'm also highly in favor of saving a few dollars. Any favorite Hong Kong dealers out there that someone can recommend?

 

Kurt

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I've spent a lot of money at HK Supplies. They may not be the absolute cheapest but they are reliable and recommended. Keep in mind they will not yet have coded lenses so if that's important to you, you will need to have them upgraded.

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“75/2 AA Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 3,495

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,730”

 

If the actual selling price is this high ($3495), I don’t see how this differential can continue to exist. What possible rational (realistic, not something a marketing person dreams up, like a warranty or whatever) can justify this differential?

 

I encountered a similar situation with a piano recently. The price in the UK is $104,000. In the US it is $180,000. Guess where people are now going to buy their pianos?

 

As I said in my post above, this is the Adorama price for a f1.4. The f2 is about $2700, still more expensive but that's the price to keep Leica NJ and your dealer in business and Leica "reps" on the road.

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Woo, a bunch of replies already in early morning. Yes, Mark, thanks for correcting, I was already fainting to sleep when typing that thread ;)

 

75/2 AA Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 2,695

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,730

 

35/2 Asph Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 2,095

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 1,600

 

28/2 Asph Cron

Adorama price on internet - USD 2,995

Street price from HK official dealer - USD 2,100

 

The street price I quoted are from official HK dealers, like Tin Cheung which should be the HKsupplies on the net. They are quite a reputable and reliable shop. I'm seriously considering the ZM21 and 35/1.4 Asph for our much anticipating M8.

 

 

BTW, Bill, is that a Steinway?

 

Max, it will take one more shippment (whereever > HK > Solms) when you seriously need a fix but it may worth for the initial savings.

 

 

Cheers

Matthew

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"BTW, Bill, is that a Steinway?"

 

Nope, it is Steingraeber. People do seem to prefer the Hamburg Steinways to the NY Steinways, but this is a very different piano. If you are interested in pianos, you should check this web site. Richard Dain created a version of both the Bosendorfer Imperial and the Steingraeber concert grand he calls the Phoenix. It greatly increases the power, sustain, and clarity. I have CD with five pianos on it (not in this order), a Hamburg Steinway Concert grand, a Stuart (about 12 per year made in Australia) concert grand, A Bosendorfer Imperial Phoenix concert grand, a Steingraeber 272 Phoenix concert grand, and the smaller 7 foot (205 CM) Steingraeber 205. The tracks are about 2 minutes long, the intro to Schumann’s Humoresque. I will be glad to send a copy of the CD with the track IDs sealed in an envelope, so after you hear and rate them, you can see which is which.

 

http://www.hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/

 

75 Summicron,

 

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/Piano/33-(RGB-scan),psColor2,glos.jpg

 

 

180 Summicron,

 

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/Piano/Shaun,8698.jpg

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Bear in mind that U.S. prices include a 3-year Passport warranty - even if one drops the lens or camera and breaks it, or drowns it in water, it's still covered for repair or replacement so long as one can send Leica US pieces with the serial number readable.

 

Gray market imports are not covered by the U.S. warranty, although I think they are covered by a 1-year international warranty. But any warranty servicing must be done through the original country (Hong Kong or wherever) or through Solms.

 

Up to the individual (in the US) to decide if the price difference is worth the risk.

 

The same goes for most cameras - you can (or could) buy gray-market Nikon and Canon and so on even through New York stores....but try and get Nikon or Canon USA to fix it if it breaks!

 

I've had one Passport repair in my life - burn hole in an M6ttl shutter. Having a USA warranty saved me probably $500 or so.

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Bill, thanks for your great intro. Though I'm not a specialist in the area, I can appreciate the qualities of these grand gems. I like the 75 Cron shot on the Steingraeber, great mood, can serve as an adv shot for the brand.

 

Andy, just curious, how did burn the shutter hole? Long exposure at shot lights? ... just to know and avoid. ;)

 

Best

Matthew

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Hi Mark,

 

Sorry I should have said - these prices are without taxes, which non EU people can claim back at the airport, so are not so good for UK people.

 

But as you imply - this is a global age and we can really shop for the best price: I bought my camera from Switzerland with a very good price from the dealer; my Metz flashgun was cheaper in USA as was my monopod, my light meter is from Germany, my lenses are from UK ... and with the money I saved - my wife spent on expensive shoes that hurt her feet and designer clothes which cost more for less material ... why do I bother?

 

Ciao

 

Ravi

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I took a look at their other non-Leica prices and they are nothing out of the ordinary. But their Leica prices certainly are and, for example, the prices are £300 - £400 less than The Classic Camera.

 

As an example, their price for the Elmarit 21mm: £1513 (€2178, $2780). Compared to that, The Classic Camera want £1979 (€2849, $3641). Leica List (in Germany): £2083 (€3000, $3833).

 

By comparison, B&H in NYC want $3395 + tax. Hong Kong Supplies want $2320 + the cost of importing it.

 

Their price for a 50mm f1.4 ASPH looks especially good.

 

Which mainly goes to show that the most expensive place to buy a Leica lens is about 100 feet from where they are made - at the factory shop in Solms.

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