timetraveller Posted August 1, 2008 Share #1 Posted August 1, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I've got a Leica M3 which has the top speeds (1/500 and 1/1000) a little bit off by 1/2 stop and 1 whole stop. The strange thing is that at these speeds, negatives come out with less density that they should...usually, at top speeds, other cameras fails,and negatives come out with more density, which means that shutter is slower that it should at that speed. With this Leica, is the opposite, shutter is FASTER that it shoulds... Have you experienced this with your cameras??? Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Hi timetraveller, Take a look here Leica M3 top speeds. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Martin T-M Posted August 1, 2008 Share #2 Posted August 1, 2008 I have a M4-P and I have the same problem. I think it needs a CLA, but it should be interresting to read a specialist's advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted August 2, 2008 Share #3 Posted August 2, 2008 I have adjusted several M3 shutters and one M4-P for my own use and my experience is as follows: in general shutters work quite well after a CLA but the fast times(500/1000) need adjustment due to capping. I never had it the other way round so I definitely believe your M3 is ready for a CLA. Many people believe it´s not possible to adjust older Leica shutters to give even exposures, from my own experience I don´t believe this but it takes a lot of time, try and error to get to near perfection. I always try my shutters with slide film, colour neg is the wrong way(to me). Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timetraveller Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted August 2, 2008 I have adjusted several M3 shutters and one M4-P for my own use and my experience isas follows: in general shutters work quite well after a CLA but the fast times(500/1000) need adjustment due to capping. I never had it the other way round so I definitely believe your M3 is ready for a CLA. Many people believe it´s not possible to adjust older Leica shutters to give even exposures, from my own experience I don´t believe this but it takes a lot of time, try and error to get to near perfection. I always try my shutters with slide film, colour neg is the wrong way(to me). Jo I try it with b&w negative and a densitometer. I do reciprocity test to be able to compare with other speeds. same EV at different apertures and speeds, same (theoric) density. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timetraveller Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted August 2, 2008 I have adjusted several M3 shutters and one M4-P for my own use and my experience isas follows: in general shutters work quite well after a CLA but the fast times(500/1000) need adjustment due to capping. I never had it the other way round so I definitely believe your M3 is ready for a CLA. Many people believe it´s not possible to adjust older Leica shutters to give even exposures, from my own experience I don´t believe this but it takes a lot of time, try and error to get to near perfection. I always try my shutters with slide film, colour neg is the wrong way(to me). Jo Sorry I don't understand rhe word "capping", it means tha the shutter "sticks"?? On the other hand, haw do you adjust the shutter?Maybe with the little screw in the speed's dial? Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin T-M Posted August 2, 2008 Share #6 Posted August 2, 2008 Here is an example of what I get with my M4-P at 1/1000. You can notice the underexposure and a darker zone at the left. Maybe it should be better to join this pic when I'll send my camera to Solms? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/59255-leica-m3-top-speeds/?do=findComment&comment=618811'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 2, 2008 Share #7 Posted August 2, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) No expert but that definately looks like typical shutter problems, the shutter isn't working evenly over the whole of its travel which is why you see the 'banding'. Time for a CLA ! (I would look for a local repairer rather than pay Solms prices for a CLA). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin T-M Posted August 3, 2008 Share #8 Posted August 3, 2008 Thank you, James. Unfortunately, we don't have local repairer here in Belgium. Maybe if I go to Paris I will spare money. Or somewhere in Holland. Any tips? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 4, 2008 Share #9 Posted August 4, 2008 Hi, I've got a Leica M3 which has the top speeds (1/500 and 1/1000) a little bit off by 1/2 stop and 1 whole stop. The strange thing is that at these speeds, negatives come out with less density that they should...usually, at top speeds, other cameras fails,and negatives come out with more density, which means that shutter is slower that it should at that speed. With this Leica, is the opposite, shutter is FASTER that it shoulds... Have you experienced this with your cameras??? Thank you As I said in another thread a little while ago, this happened to my M3 after a while and the Leica technician who tested the shutter (at an open day) said it was typical of a shutter that needed cleaning and adjusting. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted August 10, 2008 Share #10 Posted August 10, 2008 The M3 top speeds can only be adjusted after lifting off the top cover, provided the tension on the take up drums is ok. The little screw in the speed dial has nothing to do with that. You need special tools plus manual(s) plus a lot of time for try and error if you want to do it DIY. Basically I think one can´t expect a 50 year old camera to be in perfect working order so you have to spend a considerable amount of money for a profeesional CLA but it´s well spend money. Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted August 10, 2008 Share #11 Posted August 10, 2008 Capping normally means the second shutter blind is catching up with the first, a reason for uneven exposed shots like the one above. An easy solution could be to give more tension on the first shutterblind but that´s bloody wrong. The camera needs a CLA and only after that one might start playing around a little bit with the tension. Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 10, 2008 Share #12 Posted August 10, 2008 Basically I think one can´t expect a 50 year old camera to be in perfect working order so you have to spend a considerable amount of money for a profeesional CLA but it´s well spend money. Jo It depends upon whether you consider about £150 a "considerable amount of money" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psamson Posted August 12, 2008 Share #13 Posted August 12, 2008 Useful insights on this thread. I recently starting using a M3 that had been in a box for ~20 years, and I think it may be suffering from a similar problem at higher shutter speeds. I think I need to burn a roll of film and do some detailed exposure testing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted August 14, 2008 Share #14 Posted August 14, 2008 Well, it depends on you personal situation but I think GBP 150 is a fair amount for a M3 CLA. Don´t forget, after that you have a more(internally) or less(externally) new camera that will give good service for a very long time when all the Chinese plastic chunk will have gone into the bin since long... Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 14, 2008 Share #15 Posted August 14, 2008 Thank you, James. Unfortunately, we don't have local repairer here in Belgium. Maybe if I go to Paris I will spare money. Or somewhere in Holland. Any tips? index.html Will van Manen Kamera Service in Holland. Highly recommended and his prices are reasonable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin T-M Posted August 14, 2008 Share #16 Posted August 14, 2008 Thanks, Jaap. that's what I did. W. van Manen and his associate are very fast. They did the CLA of my M4-P and my R-6 in less than a week for a total of 400 euros. I think if it was done in Soms it could cost more than the double. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted August 14, 2008 Share #17 Posted August 14, 2008 Basically I think one can´t expect a 50 year old camera to be in perfect working order... Why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted August 14, 2008 Share #18 Posted August 14, 2008 Useful insights on this thread. I recently starting using a M3 that had been in a box for ~20 years, and I think it may be suffering from a similar problem at higher shutter speeds. I think I need to burn a roll of film and do some detailed exposure testing... I heard cameras and watches suffer more, if their mechanics does not move. I got the advice to use all shutter speeds occasionally if the camera is stored. This might go back to the time, when lubricants were not synthetic yet, hence the risk of resinifying might be lower with modern watches and cameras. Maybe it is just an excuse to play with the M3 from time to time Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 14, 2008 Share #19 Posted August 14, 2008 Why not? indeed, my III is 70 this year and in perfect working order, which is more than can be said for me with one or two less years! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted August 16, 2008 Share #20 Posted August 16, 2008 I have a mint M3 that had not been used for decades, grease was gummed up, long times not working anymore. After some hours I solved this and now I have a perfectly working camera again. How could I expect to buy a camera in perfect working order. Btw, all oil and grease I applied is synthetic. Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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