leicagator Posted July 29, 2008 Share #101 Posted July 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey Dreamer, Glad to hear that you are no sheep. Glad to read that you are such a fine analyst. Glad to know that Leica is totally mis-managed. Does Leica need our protection? Definitely not. Now, vote with your wallet. Wake up and move on in your life. L. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Hi leicagator, Take a look here This is getting ridiculous. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted July 29, 2008 Share #102 Posted July 29, 2008 Not me Im. I think last time I priced it, worked out I had to fork over about fifty bucks for a quick roll. Blow that. What do you guys pay for trannies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent10D Posted July 29, 2008 Share #103 Posted July 29, 2008 A HUGE crowd. You are drowning in your own Leica sheepdom. Leica is losing SLR customers every day. ... Go ahead and watch Leica be mismanaged along with Contax and Pentax and Polaroid. This doesn't need to happen with Leica. But it will surely happen if all the sheep just sing their songs while Rome burns in the wind of competitive incompetence. So ... you got any actual ideas? Or are you just another one of these guys who whines about mismanagement and incompetence because your own personal demands are not immediately and satisfactorily met? Saying that an organization is badly run is easy. Doesn't require any business skills or acumen at all. It's coming up with real solutions that's the hard part. But when you hear this kind of one sided diatribe coming from the occupant of an armchair or a bar stool ... or on a forum like this ... it's usually a pretty safe bet that no viable solutions will be forthcoming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted July 29, 2008 Share #104 Posted July 29, 2008 I have refrained from entering this debate so far......but I must admit to being just as frustrated by the absence of customer communication from Leica on the subject of a new DSLR. Leica and all of us have already lost DSLR members from this board, many to Nikon who are now so far in the technological lead of DSLR design, it is difficult to imagine how any small company could ever catch up. ie Nikon are reputed to be working on a totally new concept of camera design without any moving parts, so no mechanical shutter for instance. I am and have been totally loyal to Leica..........they do support their customers when things go wrong and I have no complaints in this at all. But at the end of the day, a camera is a tool to do the job. Farmers no longer use a scythe to cut their corn and equally so photographers also expect to use the latest technology to produce their images. Digital R users are understandably very frustrated at the lack of a future road map and are voting with their feet and wallet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 29, 2008 Share #105 Posted July 29, 2008 A HUGE crowd. You are drowning in your own Leica sheepdom. Leica is losing SLR customers every day. What is it with you guys pretending that Leica is a hobby company that doesn't need to meet market demands and doesn't need to stay competitive in the market to exist? Some of you act like by defending Leica's management you are the protector of Leica rather than a customer. Dr. Kaufman did not start or invent Leica. He bailed Leica out. Now he must show that he can manage Leica. Isn't he the man that hired Mr. Lee. The same Mr. Lee that many in here blame for the delays? 10 years ago Leica was coming out with new SLR lenses and cameras. What have they been doing the last 2 years? I love my Leica equipment. Use it every day in my work. It is not jewelry to me. It is not an investment to me. It is equipment. Some of you can pretend that Leica is just this little itty bitty company that needs your protection if you want. When it fact, what it needs, is some intelligent and creative management and new production to keep up with the time. Leica didn't get where they are because they were 5 years behind the times. They got where they "were" because they were innovative (introducing 35mm format), built very high quality lenses and were commercially competitive within their abilities to build a steady stream of lenses and cameras. Go ahead and watch Leica be mismanaged along with Contax and Pentax and Polaroid. This doesn't need to happen with Leica. But it will surely happen if all the sheep just sing their songs while Rome burns in the wind of competitive incompetence. Innovative? In the R series? Leicaflex SL Beautiful - but it nearly killed the company; R3-4-5-RE-6-7- Revamped Minolta's. Zoom lenses? took them 15 years to catch up - with the help of Agenieux, Minolta and Sigma. Retrofocus wideangles? They are beautiful now, but they were running behind for years. Lets get the facts straight.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share #106 Posted July 29, 2008 Hey Dreamer, Glad to hear that you are no sheep. Glad to read that you are such a fine analyst. Glad to know that Leica is totally mis-managed. Does Leica need our protection? Definitely not. Now, vote with your wallet. Wake up and move on in your life. L. I have voted with my wallet. Read my R list. But I can also vote with my wallet in a different direction. But go ahead, wear your Leica red dot around your neck. But I use my Leica camera's and lenses as equipment and the digital age is here to stay but Leica has no professional quality camera in the race. Oh yea, I forgot this isn't a race. It's a hobby for Leica. Makes sense. Hobbies are good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted July 29, 2008 Share #107 Posted July 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) The very first Zoom-lens every made by Leica: 70-180 Apo. 14 years later, it still sets the standard for any 35mm-zoom-lens... Retrofocus WA? The 19mm is now 17 years old, still the best! Leica S1 - a true quality-solution years before others even thought about professional digital cameras. Leica DMR - the only digital back for a 35mm-camera ever made came out when technology was available and still delivers some of the finest files available! Leica M8 - first digital camera dealing with real WAs and still the most compact high-end-digital-camera available! And of course all the other lenses, ok, they have to redesign a few R-lenses <90mm - all other lenses set new standards with groundbreaking designs, aspheric technology in combination with real craftmanship instead of cutting costs with every new generation and coming up with new marketing phrases every year! R7? Revamped Minoltas? The fantastic R8 is available since 12 years, isn't it time to forget about these cameras and lenses? Yes, let's get the facts straight indeed... What they need now is a owner instead of shareholder value and money - finally they got both with Mr. Kaufmann! Now let's wait another few weeks, please and in the meantime, use the great equipment you own right now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 29, 2008 Share #108 Posted July 29, 2008 I have voted with my wallet. Read my R list. But I can also vote with my wallet in a different direction. But go ahead, wear your Leica red dot around your neck. But I use my Leica camera's and lenses as equipment and the digital age is here to stay but Leica has no professional quality camera in the race. Oh yea, I forgot this isn't a race. It's a hobby for Leica. Makes sense. Hobbies are good. I feel that we are going round in circles here, but do you honestly consider that a company such as Leica have the resources to compete on a level playing field with the likes of Canon and Nikon, who churn out as many cameras in one day as Leica do in a a year? If they wanted to do that, they should have just approached Canon 5 years ago and asked them to badge engineer one of their FF models with a Leica fit bayonet. It would have cost them a few Euros, and some pride, but it would have got the job done. And people would have moaned like b-ry about them selling out to a Far East competitor again. (It's a good job that the internet hadn't been invented when the CL, the "Minolta" Rs and the M5 came out...) I for one am prepared to wait and see what they have up their corporate sleeves, in exactly the same way that I am prepared to see what Apple reveal at their events. Neither company flood the market with vapour-ware at every opportunity, unlike some of their competitors. BTW - I have enjoyed your website this lunchtime - all done on Rs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 29, 2008 Share #109 Posted July 29, 2008 The very first Zoom-lens every made by Leica: 70-180 Apo.14 years later, it still sets the standard for any 35mm-zoom-lens... by whose standard? Retrofocus WA? The 19mm is now 17 years old, still the best! In terms of what? Leica S1 - a true quality-solution years before others even thought about professional digital cameras. The S1 was announced in 1998, 12 years before that in 1986 at the Photokina, Nikon revealed the protptype SVC, 8 years before the S1 in 1990, Kodak has the DCS100 based on Nikon F3 which is commercially available. And most important, who has bought a S1??? Leica DMR - the only digital back for a 35mm-camera ever made came out when technology was available and still delivers some of the finest files available! Imacon designed and built the DMR. Yes, let's get the facts straight indeed... Do yourself a favor and learn to google first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted July 29, 2008 Share #110 Posted July 29, 2008 R10dreamer...don't you get it yet...NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK! Really...you've come here, bitched about what you perceive as a gross indecency perpetrated by Leica...made disrespectful remarks about the companies management and managerial procedures...all the time whining whenever someone call you on it... GO AWAY!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venkman Posted July 29, 2008 Share #111 Posted July 29, 2008 But, you didn't mention about those who have ALREADY voted many times ... what if they wake up tomorrow morning, only to find that the value of their collection is not more than a paperweight overnight? I'd say you bought some equipment for a purpose - does it cease to serve that purpose, only because there is no follow-up on it? [edit] i should stop to reply to people the second I read their posts, because Andy already said what I said here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share #112 Posted July 29, 2008 I feel that we are going round in circles here, but do you honestly consider that a company such as Leica have the resources to compete on a level playing field with the likes of Canon and Nikon, who churn out as many cameras in one day as Leica do in a a year? If they wanted to do that, they should have just approached Canon 5 years ago and asked them to badge engineer one of their FF models with a Leica fit bayonet. It would have cost them a few Euros, and some pride, but it would have got the job done. And people would have moaned like b-ry about them selling out to a Far East competitor again. (It's a good job that the internet hadn't been invented when the CL, the "Minolta" Rs and the M5 came out...) I for one am prepared to wait and see what they have up their corporate sleeves, in exactly the same way that I am prepared to see what Apple reveal at their events. Neither company flood the market with vapour-ware at every opportunity, unlike some of their competitors. BTW - I have enjoyed your website this lunchtime - all done on Rs? Yes. Everything I shoot is done with the R8 and the DMR. Well, all but two. They were shot with an Arca-Swiss 4 x5 and Rodenstock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share #113 Posted July 29, 2008 R10dreamer...don't you get it yet...NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK!Really...you've come here, bitched about what you perceive as a gross indecency perpetrated by Leica...made disrespectful remarks about the companies management and managerial procedures...all the time whining whenever someone call you on it... GO AWAY!!! LOL. Take your pills and relax a little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 29, 2008 Share #114 Posted July 29, 2008 (It's a good job that the internet hadn't been invented when the CL, the "Minolta" Rs and the M5 came out...) But, even by the time everyone is killing their time on the Internet, I still don't hear anyone bad mouthing the CL, interesting, isn't it? I for one am prepared to wait and see what they have up their corporate sleeves, in exactly the same way that I am prepared to see what Apple reveal at their events. Neither company flood the market with vapour-ware at every opportunity, unlike some of their competitors. The only thing that Leica and Apple share in common is their secretive corporate culture. Otherwise, Apple has taken a large chunk of the digital world while Leica is still a niche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 29, 2008 Share #115 Posted July 29, 2008 I'd say you bought some equipment for a purpose - does it cease to serve that purpose, only because there is no follow-up on it? Well, you are obviously one of those who don't need a follow-up, then why waste your time in these kind of threads? If no Leica customer needs a follow up, Dr. Kaufmann might just pack up and go fishing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 29, 2008 Share #116 Posted July 29, 2008 The very first Zoom-lens every made by Leica: 70-180 Apo.14 years later, it still sets the standard for any 35mm-zoom-lens... Retrofocus WA? The 19mm is now 17 years old, still the best! Leica S1 - a true quality-solution years before others even thought about professional digital cameras. Leica DMR - the only digital back for a 35mm-camera ever made came out when technology was available and still delivers some of the finest files available! Leica M8 - first digital camera dealing with real WAs and still the most compact high-end-digital-camera available! And of course all the other lenses, ok, they have to redesign a few R-lenses <90mm - all other lenses set new standards with groundbreaking designs, aspheric technology in combination with real craftmanship instead of cutting costs with every new generation and coming up with new marketing phrases every year! R7? Revamped Minoltas? The fantastic R8 is available since 12 years, isn't it time to forget about these cameras and lenses? Yes, let's get the facts straight indeed... What they need now is a owner instead of shareholder value and money - finally they got both with Mr. Kaufmann! Now let's wait another few weeks, please and in the meantime, use the great equipment you own right now! Hmm - I don't see much innovative R gear here The first own zoom 14 years ago? that is twenty years after the first Minolta and Olympus ones....- let's face it, the R series has always taken back seat to the M. With good reason - the M was and is easier to sell as an unique product,whereas the R has to do battle in the bad outside world. Not that I do not enjoy my R gear, in fact I would not use anything else for SLR work, but a small dose of realism is not too bad a thing. And let's just wait for the Photokina, when we will see what direction has been chosen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 29, 2008 Share #117 Posted July 29, 2008 I'd say you bought some equipment for a purpose - does it cease to serve that purpose, only because there is no follow-up on it? It ceases that purpose for those who want full frame and don't use film any more. Are those people supposed to be happy if R lenses become obsolete? With their usual prices and the dollar weakness, can Leica count on thousands new customers right now? The answers are in the questions. So whatever classic or paradigm-shiftic route they are going to choose, Leica will have to maintain a comfortable level of backward compatibility IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 29, 2008 Share #118 Posted July 29, 2008 As a happy M8 user this is all terribly refreshing. No doubt the _real_ bitching will start _after_ the camera's announced/released. This is more of an hors-d'oeuvre don't you think? Have we reached 200 yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 29, 2008 Share #119 Posted July 29, 2008 As a happy M8 user this is all terribly refreshing.No doubt the _real_ bitching will start _after_ the camera's announced/released.... He he! Steve wait and see M8 users reactions when the M8-2 will be launched... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 29, 2008 Share #120 Posted July 29, 2008 It's going to keep the moderators busy though, which will serve them right (Oh, hang on...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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