charlesphoto99 Posted June 22, 2008 Share #81 Posted June 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) The reason Summarits haven't sold is because they are not "cheap" compared to a Zeiss, a C/V or even a used Leica lens. And yeah, if you are plopping down that kind of money why not go all the way and buy a 'cron or 'lux. I think Leica missed the boat with that lens line... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 22, 2008 Posted June 22, 2008 Hi charlesphoto99, Take a look here Leica news. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Saloti Posted June 23, 2008 Share #82 Posted June 23, 2008 The reason Summarits haven't sold is because they are not "cheap" compared to a Zeiss, a C/V or even a used Leica lens. And yeah, if you are plopping down that kind of money why not go all the way and buy a 'cron or 'lux. I think Leica missed the boat with that lens line... Good point, they might not have gone far enough with a competitive price positioning, although customers might be willing to pay some sort of premium for a lens branded Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 23, 2008 Share #83 Posted June 23, 2008 The reason Summarits haven't sold is because they are not "cheap" compared to a Zeiss, a C/V or even a used Leica lens. And yeah, if you are plopping down that kind of money why not go all the way and buy a 'cron or 'lux. I think Leica missed the boat with that lens line... Another thing, the main people buying new M lenses today are the one's with M8's, and the widest Summarit, the 35, is just shy of a 50mm's angle on the M8's crop. If Leica had gone for coded 24, 21 and/or 16 or 18 in a really sharp, well-corrected f/3.5 or f/4, for <$2K, I think those would of sold much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 23, 2008 Share #84 Posted June 23, 2008 The Summarit lens line was introduced as a prelude and match up to the upcoming smaller, less expensive digital M based on the CL/CLE concept. The marketing concept is to get a customer into a digital M and lens for around $4K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 23, 2008 Share #85 Posted June 23, 2008 The Summarit lens line was introduced as a prelude and match up to the upcoming smaller, less expensive digital M based on the CL/CLE concept. The marketing concept is to get a customer into a digital M and lens for around $4K. ...which of course is "more than just a rumor" because you "got it from a reliable source" (wink wink wink)...who cares less about risking his job and tens of thousands of dollars in damages by violating the NDA that Leica required anyone who has insider info to sign. Lee leaked the upgrade program and Kaufmann fired his ass, and Lee was the freakin' CEO!! Give it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 23, 2008 Share #86 Posted June 23, 2008 Another thing, the main people buying new M lenses today are the one's with M8's... Have you proof of this? Or is this an internet rumour? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 23, 2008 Share #87 Posted June 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...which of course is "more than just a rumor" because you "got it from a reliable source" (wink wink wink)...who cares less about risking his job and tens of thousands of dollars in damages by violating the NDA that Leica required anyone who has insider info to sign. Lee leaked the upgrade program and Kaufmann fired his ass, and Lee was the freakin' CEO!! Give it up. Once again you've made an assumption to base your whole bombastic case on. You assume that I heard it from a rep and if you had taken the time to read the answer I gave, to an intelligent question that was asked by another member of this forum, you would have read that I didn't because the reps have signed non disclosure statements. You used your assumption to call me a liar, insult my friends and acquaintances, "idiot blabbermouth" I believe was the terminology, and based your whole tirade on the fact that you went to a local camera store and talked to some dude. Wow, what evidence! Had you taken the time to ask me I would have told you that I didn't hear it from a rep. This forum does not belong to you and if I want to speculate, ruminate or just plain express a desire for something it is not your domain to tell me not to. As for the personal attacks you claim after no one bit on your "evidence" I have not seen you go out on a limb on this forum, post anything original and have yet to see any of your photography. You seem confined to popping in on everyone else's posts to vent your crude criticisms. My contention is that there will be a Leica M based on the CL/CLE model and we will see it soon, if you don't believe that then why don't you stop criticizing me and show some evidence that it won't be produced. I've already stated that if it doesn't come out then I'll eat crow on this forum. If it does come out will you be man enough to do the same? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
like_no_other Posted June 23, 2008 Share #88 Posted June 23, 2008 "...then I'll eat crow on this forum" Can I translate that word by word? You will eat a crow like you would eat a chicken? I think too that Leica will come out with a cheaper camera with M lens mount. Maybe they even make it smaller just because they need a reason in the customer communication to offer it cheaper than the M8 is. Smaller equals to cheaper for many people. With that strategy they will not hurt the feelings of the proud M8 owners. The make it small strategy really seems to be perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 23, 2008 Share #89 Posted June 23, 2008 "...then I'll eat crow on this forum" Can I translate that word by word? You will eat a crow like you would eat a chicken? I think too that Leica will come out with a cheaper camera with M lens mount. Maybe they even make it smaller just because they need a reason in the customer communication to offer it cheaper than the M8 is. Smaller equals to cheaper for many people. With that strategy they will not hurt the feelings of the proud M8 owners. The make it small strategy really seems to be perfect. If its extra crispy and I can substitute macaroni and cheese for cole slaw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloti Posted June 24, 2008 Share #90 Posted June 24, 2008 The Summarit lens line was introduced as a prelude and match up to the upcoming smaller, less expensive digital M based on the CL/CLE concept. The marketing concept is to get a customer into a digital M and lens for around $4K. This is very good news, I think, at least if it is news. It makes perfect sense. In another thread I proposed Leica to launch a digital CL for around 1.500,- €; plus Summarit lens, there we are....Plus they have the option of offering sets with price advantages. Without such a digital CL body they will never be able to boost Summarit lenses sales significantly. Finally Leica would address to a completely new customer segment, catching market shares from other rangefinder camera competitors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 24, 2008 Share #91 Posted June 24, 2008 if I want to speculate, ruminate or just plain express a desire for something it is not your domain to tell me not to. Nor would I dream of doing that. However, I don't think you will find very many others who would support you in saying that The Summarit lens line was introduced as a prelude and match up to the upcoming smaller, less expensive digital M based on the CL/CLE concept. The marketing concept is to get a customer into a digital M and lens for around $4K. sounds like speculation, rumination, or expressing a desire for something. It sounds like a statement of something you know to be true. And since you've admitted you don't that it's true, then that makes it an untruth. I never called you a liar, you painted that picture yourself. As to the rest of your rant, it was you and only you who has thrown out insults. I called you out, and rightfully so, but the personal attacking has all come from you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 24, 2008 Share #92 Posted June 24, 2008 I honestly doubt we will be seeing a CL style digital M from Leica. After all, wasn't the Digilux line supposed to be that? And in order for a CL to be smaller than the M then they would have to have an even smaller sensor (let's say a 1.6 crop) leaving them with a line of lenses 75mm (the 35 Summarit) to 200mm (the 90mm Summarit). Where does that leave them in the market, esp since the trend among p&s has been wider and wider lenses? No, I think the Summarits were a ploy to drive M8 sales that just didn't work out. I think Leica will come out with a CM style camera, with a fixed lens and/or zoom to take on Ricoh and Canon. And some new wide primes for existing M's as well as the M9 down the road. The CL did not do well for Leica originally - I can't see why they would want to replicate that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
veraikon Posted June 24, 2008 Share #93 Posted June 24, 2008 s 75mm (the 35 Summarit) to 200mm (the 90mm Summarit) Sorry it is 56mm (35mm lens) - 144mm (90mm lens) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 24, 2008 Share #94 Posted June 24, 2008 ..The CL did not do well for Leica originally... Not the first time i read/hear this, i don't know why. In fact the CL was a success and even saved Leica according to our colleague Howard here : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/473987-post134.html. Besides the CL was a compact rangefinder, nothing to do with past or current Panaleicas IMHO. It also had interchangeable lenses. This is exactly what many M users need because they cannot afford an M8 (or a second one) and they own Leica lenses already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 24, 2008 Share #95 Posted June 24, 2008 ...in order for a CL to be smaller than the M then they would have to have an even smaller sensor (let's say a 1.6 crop) leaving them with a line of lenses 75mm (the 35 Summarit) to 200mm (the 90mm Summarit)... 35x1.6 does not make 75 does it? 1.5 / 1.6 cropped sensors are more than usual of course and an APS-C digital rangefinder already exists, the R-D1. 35mm lenses make great 50's with it. Same with 50mm lenses making small/fast 75mm for portrait. No problem here and people like me much prefer the R-D1 crop factor to that of the M8 which makes 50mm lenses either too short or too long. The only issue would be wides because Leica has not launched affordable 15 and 21mm lenses yet, but CV wides do quite well with the R-D1 already, so a couple more Summarits would be enough to fulfill all my needs personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloti Posted June 24, 2008 Share #96 Posted June 24, 2008 lct, I would rather expect a CL digital with the current M8-sensor. Would this work technically? No idea. Next year or even as late as Photokina 2010 a M9 with full size sensor will replace M8, after 3 years of life of M8. To sum up the new product launches M-series 2008 : a) Digital CL crop 1,3 + Summarit lenses = "starter package" New firmware for M8 with substantial performance improvements c) A few fast M lenses, including new Noctilux and a new Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 Plus announcement of R10, to be available mid 2009.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 24, 2008 Share #97 Posted June 24, 2008 Whoops, my math was wrong (go figure). Anyway, considering Leica had to up the size slightly with the M8, not sure how they will make a CL sized digital body with the current size sensor and actually deliver something that has a decent buffer and battery life etc etc. A fixed or zoom lens that is designed specifically for a smaller sensor would make a lot more sense on a compact body. I don't know, maybe they can do an interchangeable CL but I kind of doubt it, and esp for the price range of $2K. And as far as the CL analogy, I guess I was both wrong and right. Their team up with Minolta is what saved them then; their team up with Panasonic didn't necessarily save them now but it did tide them over with the switch to digital (screaming and kicking by some accounts) and give their brand name a lot of exposure in the amateur market. But if they do manage a sub-compact M8 they must do it right (I mean perfect!). There is too much competition from the dslr world, esp if Nikon releases a normal size FX body at a premium price. Many die-hard users jumped at the M8 and it drew in some monied new users too. But just as many went Nikon/Canon or are just sitting on the fence waiting for Leica to get it "right" (and we all know what that means, whether you want to believe it or not is up to you). Anyway, I say best of luck to them. It'll be interesting and I doubt I'll be able to afford any of it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 24, 2008 Share #98 Posted June 24, 2008 lct, I would rather expect a CL digital with the current M8-sensor... So would i if the M8 were full frame but it is not the case as you know. With the same APS-H sensor, an affordable digital CL would kill the M8 i'm afraid. We can just guess that a full frame M9 will replace the M8 soon or late but this will not happen tomorrow anyhow. So if a digital CL must be launched next year according to rumors here and there it cannot be anything else than a APS-C camera in my most humble opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 25, 2008 Share #99 Posted June 25, 2008 Another thing, the main people buying new M lenses today are the one's with M8's, and the widest Summarit, the 35, is just shy of a 50mm's angle on the M8's crop. If Leica had gone for coded 24, 21 and/or 16 or 18 in a really sharp, well-corrected f/3.5 or f/4, for <$2K, I think those would of sold much better. That is the true reason. The 90mm is too much for the M8. The 50mm is an odd focal for the M8, and you have many alternatives. Wide-angles may be more interesting for the M8 user. Buyers of new lenses are mostly owners of M8 cameras. The M8 cameras sold very well, but the rising price may have affected the sales. It is just at that moment when the new Summarits appeared. Sales of cheaper lenses depend on sales of cameras. If the camera is becoming more and more expensive, the sales of a cheaper line of lenses is affected too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 25, 2008 Share #100 Posted June 25, 2008 Nor would I dream of doing that. However' date=' I don't think you will find very many others who would support you in saying that" [b']Apparently you haven't been reading the other posts here because there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for the type of camera I'm talking about and no one else is carrying on like you. [/b] sounds like speculation, rumination, or expressing a desire for something. It sounds like a statement of something you know to be true. And since you've admitted you don't that it's true, then that makes it an untruth. I never called you a liar, you painted that picture yourself. As to the rest of your rant, it was you and only you who has thrown out insults. I called you out, and rightfully so, but the personal attacking has all come from you. You have an interesting way of reading things it all seems to be from a self centered perspective that you use to try to prove a point. Read what you wrote here and it sounds like the rant of a desperate man who got caught making a lot of noise about something he was totally wrong about to begin with. I've called you out before to take this personal axe you seem to want to continue to grind off this forum and I'm doing it again because I really don't want (and I doubt anyone else here wants) to hear you grasping at straws to cover up your sarcasm and insults. My email in infocusf8@earthlink.net. Now you have no excuses. As far as calling me out I see you have no huevos to accept my challange of apologizing to the forum if you are wrong about the camera I've been discussing. I will, I'll apologize for being wrong and I'll apologize for my source being wrong. And FYI Steven Lee was not fired for leaking information he was the CEO he could discuss whatever he wanted. He was fired because he philosophically and personally couldn't get along with key employees in the company. Several tendered their resignations prompting his termination and a standing ovation was done upon announcement of his termination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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