LEICA ANNOUNCEMENT: New Leica Products - LEICA M8 / M System

[comapedrosa]

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I'm 11.3km high traveling at 933km/h somewhere above the Atlantic by -49C and the best thing to do I can think of is reading all you ecstatic comments as well as the newly discovered French blogs!!! I'm afraid there are not many alternatives to cure this addiction :-) Madame is so not going to like it!

BTW: I can't help but being very pleasantly surprised by Singapore Airlines for keeping up the long tradition of hiring attractive stewardesses (I'll keep it at that before I get into trouble...)

[yeungkeefu]

Congrat. to Leica and it is great news from Leica to launch the M8, this turnover will be good or bad? At least, Leica now has another bargain power for the digital market. The digital market this trend is true and this is definitely good start.

[marknorton]

Mark,

 

Again, that *is* how it currently works, both A and B. The firmware programming associated with the set button is very well designed.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

That's good to hear Sean, some other thoughts:

 

1) When the scroll wheel is used to select menu entries, the selected entry should wrap from top to bottom and bottom to top so that you can turn it in whichever direction gets you to where you want to go quickest.

 

2) I can see different modes here - Shooting Mode, Image Playback Mode, Set Mode, Menu Mode, Image Review Mode and, as I understand it, pressing the shutter release always takes you back to Shooting Mode. In that mode, with auto-exposure set, could the thumb-wheel be used to dial in EV+/- since I don't see what else it is doing? Maybe an option to have this as an alternative way to set it as in SET mode, maybe an option for "this picture only".

 

3) I think there should be some indication in the viewfinder that EV+/- is set, maybe a blinking dot to remind you. Even better would be to replace the shutter speed with the EV+/- value while you are dialling or alternate the display, or something.

[kcgeorge]

Wouldn't it have been great if the LCD at the back was the flip-and-twist kind? Like on some Canons.

[marknorton]

I think you'd have to be very inexperienced and/or stupid to spend a whole day at ISO 2500....

 

My second (trivial) nitpick is the little blue dot (ambient light sensor). It seems a bit gimmicky to me and it's inclusion seems unnecessary (they managed to avoid it with the M7).

 

Well, we all have our senior moments, when you pass 50, believe me.

 

I agree the dot seems a bit pointless. We kind of expected it to be an ambient light sensor like the D2X for white balance and there were those schemes suggested for figuring out the actual working aperture - now discredited.

 

If all it does is adjust the brightness of the viewfinder LED display, you'd think they could have metered the light coming in through the slatted window instead.

[cbretteville]

Sean's review really is first rate. It is fair, accurate and informative. It identifies the issues without raining on anyone's parade or detracting from all the enthusiasm. It is a review not a "commentary" or op-ed piece. Worth the price for a year.

 

Oh, and as for the guy who wants to buy just this one review and Sean's "I'm not that kind of girl" retort, just look at it as the kind of one night stand you might find you want to last forever.

 

It is extremely long winded and imho could have been edited down soemwhat. It is also plagued by a horrible interface that forces me to read in square the is the size of a keyhole on my screen as it dosen't resize according to screen resoulution. Possibly an effect of his choice of flash as a presenter or simply just crappy pogramming on the part of the hired help.

[Guest stnami]

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jimini cricket reckons everything is cool, would have preferred a wooden body so he doesn't have to chew the fat

[marknorton]

Looking through the menu options, there's some menu tidying required...

 

1. Inconsistent capitalisation - in the "color" saturation menu, "standard" but "Black + White" - though I think I will have to allow them to mis-spell "colour". Selftimer or Self-Timer?

 

2. In this day and age, there's no need to use periods at the end of abbreviations - "Std" is fine, it doesn't need to be "Std." The French and probably the German menus as well will use a lot of abbreviations.

 

3. I personally think the Info Display on image playback is a bit of a mess, a bunch of information dumped into the available area. It would look better reorganised and right justified.

 

4. They've missed a trick with the normal default display as well. The title bar contains just the image number. The left hand side of that title bar could also display one or two items from the Info Display, ISO and Shutter Speed, for example.

 

On the other hand, I like the play magnify display with the thumb-nail showing size and location.

[Enrique Santa]

Pretty machine.Congratulations to Leica Team, and all those professional that are going to buy this cam.

 

Sorry for the rest -including me-, at this price its a very expensive toy for amateurs.

[marknorton]

A little error in the new M-System Brochure:

 

Page 27: "Aperture Priority mode. The Leica M8 has an aperture priority mode with a choice of two delay times of 2 and 12 seconds"

 

That's going to be an interesting feature... you might get a bit of camera shake though with only two shutter speeds that long... They'll be telling us the Self-Timer goes down to 1/8000 second next.

 

I wonder how many of these brochures they have had printed...

[marknorton]

Just curious, but how does a M8 DNG file with the same size sensor and megapixel take up 1/2 the space of a DMR file, presumably without losing any resolution?

 

A raw file can be compressed just like any other data file using a lossless compression algorithm such as we've been used to for years with things like pkzip. When you uncompress it, you get back exactly what you started with, which is not the case with JPEG.

 

Compressing the raw data on the fly makes sense if you have the computing horsepower to do it because it takes up less space in the raw buffer, allows you to write an image to the card faster and allows more images to the card.

 

A D2X, for example, has an option to save raw data compressed or uncompressed. Sounds like the DMR stores them uncompressed. Compressed makes good sense, IMHO.

[jlm]

thanks to Sean; great review, as always.

 

couple of questions:

if I want to fire a studio flash, I assume there is some kind of shoe adapter, but can the pre-flash be disabled?

does the car charger plug into the camera, or into the standard charger?

will the view of a std 21mm lens just fill the entire finder so you would not need an external finder?

[marknorton]

John

 

I've thought about it and I think the answer to your question about the 21mm lens is "No, it will not fill the entire finder". Here's my reasoning...

 

1.The M7 finder with 0.72 magnification provides a frame for a 28mm lens with a small amount of space around it, even if it is difficult to see

 

2. On the M8, the viewfinder magnification is reduced to 0.68 so that a frame for same field of view (now from a 21mm lens) - if there were one - would appear smaller, with more space around it than around the 28mm frame on an M7.

 

It looks like the new finder is interesting. Fixed magnification with different frame lines according to focal length so to use it will be similar to the camera. That compares to the existing 21/24/28mm finder which zooms and has variable magnification. Looking at the description, it looks like they have gone to some lengths to make it good to use with high optical quality and it is black anodised, not a plastic housing as was thought originally.

 

Doesn't look like the battery can be charged in situ in the camera - no power connector on the camera.

[mitchell]

Mark,

 

Thanks for your reply about compression. So theoretically, one could take a picture with no redundancy, which could not be compressed, and would be 20 MB?

 

In the DMR viewfinder, there is an indication of Exposure Compensation, and how much. I'm not aware of any pictures of viewfinder readouts for the M8. Hopefully EC will be shown.

 

John,

 

In the DMR, which seems to have the same type (big) charger as the M8 (but which accommodates a different battery shape) the car jack plugs into the the standard charger which the battery is inserted into. So you need the lighter plug plus the charger to charge in the car. A little cumbersome, but not a problem.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

[mitchell]

Just to be clear, in the DMR, the battery has to be taken out of the camera to be charged, which as Mark says, seems to be the case with the M8.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I believe there is EV warnings inside the viewfinder.

 

Car charger everything goes with you the car adapter plugs into the AC charger and from there to camera. Pain but it works. I was told the battery is very good on the M8 . I would not be caught dead without a extra. Welcome to digital. LOL

[sean_reid]

Mark,

 

Again, that *is* how it currently works, both A and B. The firmware programming associated with the set button is very well designed.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

In an effort to avoid confusion, I'm going to quote here from my own review (something I would ask that others not do, please):

 

"Pressing the "set" button on the M8, however, calls up six important picture parameters that can all be seen on the LCD at once without scrolling.*All of these are top-level menu items, not buried in menu sub-levels. They are:

 

1. User Profile (up to three different combinations of parameters can be saved and recalled)

2. ISO (160, 320, 640, 1250 or 2500)

3. EV Compensation (plus or minus 3 stops)

4. White Balance (presets, degrees Kelvin or custom)

5. Compression (DNG, JPG Fine, JPG Basic, DNG + JPG Fine or DNG + JPG Basic)

6. Resolution (1.2 MP, 3.1 MP, 6.2 MP, 10.5 MP)

 

The camera also remembers which of the settings the photographer last called up with the "set" button. So, for example, if the photographer last used the "set" button to select ISO, the camera will have the ISO setting highlighted when the "set" button is pressed again. So, if one predominantly varies the ISO setting, for example, this firmware design helps him or her to get to that setting fairly quickly."

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Conrad, I agree with you completely. A few minor conveniences are soon forgotten as you become acquainted any new system. But, the upside is incredible ... amazing utility paired with incredible optics.

 

Kurt

 

Hi Kurt,

 

Some of the design issues aren't exactly "inconveniences" but the degree to which they'll affect photographers will vary from "not at all" to "notable ongoing hassle". For example, Guy and myself (among others here) are often doing paid work at a fast pace and under some pressure. Anything that interferes with ergonomics can become glaring under those conditions. Photographers working more slowly or more casually may not mind at all. The digital control system is not perfect but the firmware that controls the interactions via the set menu is very good and could be even better.

 

And, again, as I mentioned in my review, photographers who shoot in RAW, rarely change ISO while shooting and who rarely use EV corrections will likely have no ergonomic complaints at all with the M8. Photojournalists working under pressure with JPEGs, however, may have concerns.

 

Honest assessment improves the breed long term. A serious camera like this deserves nothing less.

 

BTW, my daughter still loves your G2.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Sean, one thing you didn't address is whether the screen is visible in sunshine. With the D2, that had a similar interface (maybe actually slightly better -- only in an interface sense) the screen became pretty useless once out in a bright sun.

 

This wasn't a problem for the settings that were set through the screen as you could use the viewfinder -- about the only thing it was really good for. Here however, you can't do that. Looking down at the screen is one thing (exposure comp will be the one I'll be using most when not using manual), but having to shade the screen to see what's up would be more of a problem.

 

How does the screen hold up in real life bright sunshine conditions?

 

On the flip side, in inside settings, with the RD-1 you can turn it all off so you don't light yourself up with the glow of an LCD. There are situations where that's important. And in some senses the essence of a rangefinder. Can you turn all the glowing stuff off and on easily with the M8?

 

Not taking away form the bottom line of L glass (and Canon glass ) on an M body with an R sensor, but still curious.

 

Thanks for illuminating the answer to these questions.

 

Best, Steven

 

Hi Steven,

 

It's a good LCD display but I did shade it in order to see it well in bright sunlight. But I've found that to be true for almost all professional DSLRs as well. The only camera that comes to my mind right off that has a great LCD for bright sunlight is the Sony R1.

 

Yes, one can certainly set the M8 so that LCD stays off indefinitely so long as one doesn't need to access controls that are set only via the LCD.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[albertwang]

I'm stunned that the Sony R1 LCD is good under bright conditions. I will have to check it out.