First M Lens for a Beginner

[jooklee]

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Hello everyone.

 

I have been thinking of getting a film Leica M for quite some time now and finally decided to pull the trigger with an M6. Ideally, I'm looking to spend approx. $2000 USD on a used body and one lens, most likely from ebay. I was hoping that the veteran users on this board could impart some wisdom and help me take my first steps into rangefinder--and Leica--photography.

 

First of all, is the used M6 (either classic or TTL) the best option to go with given my newbie-status and budget? And second, is there a particular beginner's lens that I should be starting my kit with? For those that have a variety of lenses, what would you buy as your first lens if you were to build your kit all over again?

 

I'd appreciate any advice, thank you all.

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[earleygallery]

Don't like the veteran tag but an M6 is a good choice - wide range of frame lines and built in metering.

 

It depends on your personal preference and your regular subject matter of course, but for a 1st lens - an all rounder - I'd choose a 35mm, ideally a Summicron but I have a Voigtlander Skopar which is excellent too, and the new Summarit is meant to be a very nice lens as well.

 

Alternatively a 50mm Summicron or Elmar.

 

Oh, and I'd be wary of buying from e bay if you are new to Leica. Its OK if you know what you're looking for and what to ask the seller but you'd be better off buying from a dealer with some g'tee.

[jooklee]

Thank you, James, for the quick response.

 

I should've stated this in my original post, but I prefer a wider lens so the 35mm suggestions you gave were just what I needed. I will look into those models as well as the 50mm's.

 

With regards to your comment about beginners buying on ebay, what should I be most concerned with? Is it the misrepresentation of the actual condition? I too am hesitant to make more significant purchases on ebay. However, with my budget, it seems like pretty much the only option available to me at this point. From the past month of intensive ebay watching, it seems like I can get an M6 in good cosmetic/working condition for around $1100-1300, which leaves me with several hundred for a decent lens. Perhaps a bit too idealistic and naive?

[cosmonaut]

Is 40mm wide enough? I use the Nokton 40mm 1.4. It's a very fast and sharp lens.

[jooklee]

Is 40mm wide enough? I use the Nokton 40mm 1.4. It's a very fast and sharp lens.

 

Yes, 40mm is definitely wide enough for my taste. Thank you for the suggestion. A quick search yielded some great prices, so that's a big plus.

[earleygallery]

Don't get me wrong, I love e bay and have bought lots of gear that way, but with Leica there are lots of scammers and yes, generally take descriptions with a large pinch of salt. Be prepared to pay for a CLA too which often makes something like an M body not so much of a bargain compared to buying from a dealer with a 6 or 12 month g'tee (unless you find a bargain).

 

If you do buy from an e bay seller ask some questions about the camera/lens before bidding and only go ahead if you get good responses, obviously checking feedback too.

 

A local dealers to me has a boxed M6 TTL for £700 and another has a s/h Skopar 35 for £150.

[valtof]

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(...) Be prepared to pay for a CLA too which often makes something like an M body not so much of a bargain compared to buying from a dealer with a 6 or 12 month g'tee (unless you find a bargain).

A local dealers to me has a boxed M6 TTL for £700 and another has a s/h Skopar 35 for £150.

 

I agree with James on all points.

At the price you expect (around 1.000 $) a used M6 found on Ebay

may have any kind of problem that even an honest vendor is not aware of.

I "only" bought 5 gears on Ebay and only one was really in the expected conditions.

Of course, it's less risky for a lens than for a body.

 

I bought my M6 Classic to an official Leica dealer in Paris last autumn.

It was nearly in as new condition and "only" paid 1.150 € for it.

 

As for a prime lens I'd also recommend a 35, and yes the Voightlander.

I made some tests with my M8 to see how my CV Skopar PII compete

with the Summicron Asph and the Zeiss Biogon and frankly,

the difference is so nearly invisible that I wouldn't put 1.000 $ more, in your situation.

 

Cheers

Christophe

[Guest Olof]

A 50mm lens is the most versatile lens, start with this and try to get a Summicron.

[eyedeebee]

E-bay can be a treasure trove. I got a 50mm Elmar 2.8 for a great price for my M6 TTL, but it's worth putting some time in researching the right questions before you start bidding.

 

I've also got a 35mm CV Ultron 1.7, which I can't praise enough - great value, and the results I have achieved have been very pleasing.

 

Good luck!

[andym911]

M6 Classic with 40mm Summicron....an excellent combination.

 

andy

[peter_n]

I also agree with James and I think that an M6 is definitely the way to go. Take a good look at the Voigtlander 35/1.4, you will find pictures from it on flickr. If you are leery of eBay then buying in one of the forums like this one is a potential avenue for you. Generally the prices are a bit cheaper (no eBay fees to pay) and you have the added advantage of buying from a known member of an online community. I sold an M7, 90AA and 50ASPH on photo.net recently and all transactions were pleasant. Take a look at the Buy & Sell Section here (top menu bar on the page), the photo.net classifieds and the rangefinderforum.com classifieds.

[rob_x2004]

Another vote for the M6 Classic, and 35Sumicron if you can stretch the budget. New to rangefinders it is definitely a good idea to stick with one lens for a year till you get things properly worked out. 35 is versatile, and you will be able to jump to other lenses later, rather than getting a few lenses and not being able to sort out a mess.

 

Welcome to the forum and all that stuff.

[Photoskeptic]

50 Summicron, no contest.

[abrewer]

Welcome to the Forum

 

There is a life-long debate on the best newbie focal length, 35 v 50, so you'll get about half recommending one, half the other here

 

One caveat about the older M6 bodies: be wary of light leak at the strap lugs

 

Get right of return if you choose one

 

I started with an M6TTL--those are plentiful and relatively new

 

If it was me I'd prefer to get the newest lens I could; for the modern coatings and aspherical elements, if possible

 

If I couldn't find a 35 f2 ASPH (my own preference of focal length) for a bargain price I'd grab a newish 50 f2.8 and enjoy the compactness of that kit

 

Also, very much agree with James and others: use whatever you purchase for at least a year before considering a change

 

Hope you find what you're looking for in a Leica

 

Thanks

 

Allan

[bill]

My first Leica was an M6 and I never looked back...!

 

Lens - as Allan says, you will get those who say 35mm is "normal", and those who say 50mm. I fall into the latter camp.

 

Lenses I would recommend would include:

 

35mm

 

VC Colour Skopar f2,5 in any of it's variants, but particularly the PI for handling.

Summicron

Summaron 2.8

 

40mm

VC Nokton - a truly remarkable lens

Summicron

 

50mm

VC 2.5

Summicron

but top of the list would be a 50mm f2.8 Elmar-M.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[luigi bertolotti]

I never bought on ebay... and for me buying your FIRST Leica on it... sounds not so good...you live in NYC and have surely number of places in which can find the right M body at a site in which you can touch and speak of it with the dealer; M6 is good, and, though I think that is a pity to have a no Leica lens as your first lens, I'd prefer even to spend something more on a trustable body and seller (on ebay you can surely find a better price) and spare something with a Voigtlander (new or used) lens...

Personally, I'd do this way :

- Used M6 at a good shop

- Voigtlander 35 or 40, new or used.

- Just to have ONE Leitz lens from start... find a used 50 Elmar (2,8 or even 3,5)... or (better, imho) an old Elmar 90 screw mount + adapter, that is dirty cheap: when time shall arrive you'll buy a modern 90 (great focal for film Ms), you probably can resell it losing something in the range of 50 US$...

[Michael Hiles]

I would jump for a 50mm Summicron - avoid the early collapsable, but all the others are fine, with fairly subtle differences.

 

I am a little curious about recommendations for the 40mm. There is no frame for 40mm on the M6 (or any other M that I know of), and I don't understand why I would buy a lens that doesn't "work" with my new camera. If you are keen on a little "wide" buy a 35mm, which will be compatable with your viewfinder. But the point of the 50mm is that its perspective is just about what the eye normally sees. And to me, that is important.

 

Michael

[srichmond]

I think you're getting good advice here. I bought my first Leica (M6) a few months ago. It came with the 50mm f2 Summicron, but I felt this wasn't really wide enough for my taste. Some people are very happy with 50mm, but I find it a little bit restrictive at times. I bought Summicron 35mm f2 asph a few months later, and love it. These aren't cheap though.

 

I've bought all my Leica gear on eBay, but do admit there is always a degree of risk with this. Be careful. Look at the seller, look what other stuff they sell. I've been lucky, but there's no guarantees.

 

You won't regret getting the M6. I've had lots of other cameras (most SLRs), and I've never been more motivated to get out there shooting every weekend. The return to film has been great fun too.

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[earleygallery]

Just to have ONE Leitz lens from start... find a used 50 Elmar (2,8 or even 3,5)... or (better, imho) an old Elmar 90 screw mount + adapter, that is dirty cheap: when time shall arrive you'll buy a modern 90 (great focal for film Ms), you probably can resell it losing something in the range of 50 US$...

 

Acutally that's a great idea. I guess 90% of the time I use a 35 or 90mm with my Leica's. The 9cm Elmar f4 - they are available in screw or M mount - has to be the biggest bargain in Leica lenses and possibly the most underrated?

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[jooklee]

Wow, thank you ALL for sharing your thoughts, experiences, and advice. As a newcomer, I'm very excited about starting down this path yet overwhelmed, at the same time, with all the options out there when it comes to actually buying and acquiring. With all the sound advice I received in just the past 24 hours (esp. with regards to ebay), I'm totally regretting not having started off my initial research here at the forum. Seems like I could've saved hours, if not days, of mindless internet browsing trying to answer my own novice questions. Oh, and before I forget, I apologize if I opened a huge can of worms with the "best first lens" questions. I've spent some time on various "aficianado" forums where debates over X vs Y product get pretty heated (and amusing, often at the expense of the newbie poster).

 

So... having somewhat digested all the suggestions/comments, I decided to go for a black classic M6, not from ebay, but from a legit Leica dealer. Thanks to those (sorry, I can't keep track of all the great advice) who suggested going to a reputable dealer to handle and talk about the items firsthand. I see now--very clearly--how wrong things could've gone if I had just bought off ebay for the lowest price possible. I'm jumping into all of this expecting/hoping to use my first Leica longer than I'd drive any one car in my lifetime and it seems absolutely ridiculous now that I was planning on taking huge risks.

 

As for the controversial first lens, I am going to go with my instinct/initial budget and choose the 35mm Voigtlander (if I were to find a bag of money on my way to work, I'd definitely get a Summicron, no question). As a big 28mm fan that also finds the 50mm a bit too tight, I think the 35mm is the perfect first lens to spend a couple years with.

 

Again, thanks to all for the warm welcome and invaluable help.

 

Best,

Jook