chris_livsey Posted April 11, 2008 Share #1 Â Posted April 11, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Reading the new Henri Cartier-Bresson "Scrapbook" I came across reference to the early film stock he used, Perutz and Agfa, and have been trying to find the speed of this stock, just curious, it was around 1932 when they first added numbering to the stock. I have got lost in the web and would appreciate any input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 11, 2008 Posted April 11, 2008 Hi chris_livsey, Take a look here Early Perutz and Agfa. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
giordano Posted April 12, 2008 Share #2 Â Posted April 12, 2008 I've got a 1942 book on miniature photography which cites the following examples (not Agfa or Perutz, alas). I've added the approximate ISO equivalents, and it gives an idea of how things looked then: Â Slow (e.g. Kodak EF Pan): 12/10 DIN, 23 degrees Scheiner (ISO 16) Medium fast (eg. Panatomic X): 15/10 DIN, 26 Scheiner (ISO 32) Fast (e.g. Kodak Plus X, Ilford HP2): 18/10 DIN, 29 Scheiner (ISO 64) Ultra (e.g. Kodak Super XX): 21/10 DIN, 32 Scheiner (ISO 125). Â One reason the ISO values are approximate is that the three systems use different methods to measure film speed. Another is that in those days speed ratings tended to include a generous safety margin (towards overexposure, which made sense at the time, at least for medium and large B&W negatives which made up the vast bulk of the market). This was lowered by 1 stop some time after WW2, i.e. the published speed ratings of B&W films doubled with no change in the emulsion or processing. So in modern terms it may be appropriate to double the ISO numbers above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share #3 Â Posted April 12, 2008 Thank you exactly what I was after. BTW is it true that Kodak SuperXX became TriX when the "speed" was changed without an emulsion change ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted April 12, 2008 Share #4 Â Posted April 12, 2008 Thank you exactly what I was after.BTW is it true that Kodak SuperXX became TriX when the "speed" was changed without an emulsion change ? Â This Kodak's Venerable TRI-X Black-and-White Film Celebrates 50 Years says Tri-X was a new emulsion when launched in 1954 at ASA 200. Presumably that included the extra 1-stop safety margin, hence ISO 400 in today's terms, although the article isn't clear. Â Wikipedia has a short Tri-X article but it's confused to the point of uselessness except for including the link above:o . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share #5  Posted April 12, 2008 As a by the by I found this list of Kodak film codes which does not appear on the Kodak site and may be of value to some.  Kodak Film Number to Film Type Cross Reference Table — Tom Philo Photography  BTW some sources suggest Kodak are confused and TriX was introduced before this date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted April 14, 2008 Share #6 Â Posted April 14, 2008 I've got a 1942 book on miniature photography which cites the following examples (not Agfa or Perutz, alas). I've added the approximate ISO equivalents, and it gives an idea of how things looked then:Â Slow (e.g. Kodak EF Pan): 12/10 DIN, 23 degrees Scheiner (ISO 16) Medium fast (eg. Panatomic X): 15/10 DIN, 26 Scheiner (ISO 32) Fast (e.g. Kodak Plus X, Ilford HP2): 18/10 DIN, 29 Scheiner (ISO 64) Ultra (e.g. Kodak Super XX): 21/10 DIN, 32 Scheiner (ISO 125). Â One reason the ISO values are approximate is that the three systems use different methods to measure film speed. Another is that in those days speed ratings tended to include a generous safety margin (towards overexposure, which made sense at the time, at least for medium and large B&W negatives which made up the vast bulk of the market). This was lowered by 1 stop some time after WW2, i.e. the published speed ratings of B&W films doubled with no change in the emulsion or processing. So in modern terms it may be appropriate to double the ISO numbers above. Â A 1937 Leica Manual gives 'Fast Panchromatic' as 23 Scheiner and 'Medium Fast Panchromatic' as 20-21 Scheiner, so a bit slower than the 1942 figures, the list of manufacturers of such films includes Agfa and Perutz as well as others. Earlier films might be slower still. Â Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted April 14, 2008 Author Share #7 Â Posted April 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1937 is exactly the period that is most interesting, thank you for taking the trouble to look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted April 15, 2008 Share #8 Â Posted April 15, 2008 1937 is exactly the period that is most interesting, thank you for taking the trouble to look. Â No problem, it sits on the shelf in my 'study'/darkroom/hell hole, and it's contemporary with my (inherited) III, so I have wallow in nostalgia now and again! Â Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 15, 2008 Share #9 Â Posted April 15, 2008 It is really sad- I have a box full of early 1950 slides from my father, Agfa and Perutz, And they have not held their colour well, Agfa went green, Perutz went blue. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted April 15, 2008 Share #10 Â Posted April 15, 2008 It is really sad- I have a box full of early 1950 slides from my father, Agfa and Perutz, And they have not held their colour well, Agfa went green, Perutz went blue. . Â Not unusual I think, Kodachrome stands up well, mine from early 60s are fine, somewhere I have some Perutz from about 1962, I will look them out and see whats happened to them. The B&W negs from 1937-9 which came with the III are still in good condition though! Â Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beoon Posted June 23, 2023 Share #11  Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) I recently bought this Perutz Leica Special Film canister. Perutz film is listed in the first Leica catalogue dated November 1926 Agfa film is also listed in a Leica price list from May 1926  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 23, 2023 by beoon 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/50438-early-perutz-and-agfa/?do=findComment&comment=4799724'>More sharing options...
Roland Zwiers Posted June 23, 2023 Share #12  Posted June 23, 2023 Hello Alan, Here is part of a 1928 Perutz pricelist, that quotes this film. The German name would be Perutz Leica Spezial-Film, so Special with a 'z' spelling. The names of early Perutz Leica films are a bit confusing. The first Perutz Leica-film was based on the Grünsiegel emulsion and became known as the Perutz Leica-Film. This film became available immediately after the introduction of the Leica, so it was not available for the first Leica review of late march 1925. The second Perutz Leica film was based on the (Spezial) Flieger emulsion. This film must have become available in the second half of 1926. It is indeed mentioned in the November 1926 Leitz catalogue. It became known as the Perutz Leica-Spezialfilm.  I would be interested in the Leica price list from May 1926! Happy to exchange other information as well! rolandzwiers@gmail.com  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/50438-early-perutz-and-agfa/?do=findComment&comment=4799792'>More sharing options...
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