Guest suilvenman Posted March 8, 2008 Share #101 Posted March 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that any future posts on this subject should avoid any reference to "1984". It is clear that Orwell's worst fears have been superseded by events and that his predictions now appear rather naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Hi Guest suilvenman, Take a look here Advice to photographers in Uk. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted March 8, 2008 Share #102 Posted March 8, 2008 Here's Bill's summary of rights etc Under UK law.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest suilvenman Posted March 8, 2008 Share #103 Posted March 8, 2008 Bill and Andy, Thanks for making that summary of rights available. I'm about to print off acopy to keep in my camera bag just in case. The fact that I feel to need to do so is worrying in itself. Cheers, Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted March 8, 2008 Share #104 Posted March 8, 2008 . Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/47106-advice-to-photographers-in-uk/?do=findComment&comment=504452'>More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted March 8, 2008 Share #105 Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks Andy and Bill! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-IIIf Posted March 8, 2008 Share #106 Posted March 8, 2008 I think that any future posts on this subject should avoid any reference to "1984". It is clear that Orwell's worst fears have been superseded by events and that his predictions now appear rather naive. There was a good comment on BBC 1's Question Time on Thursday night, directed at government minister Ed Millibob: "1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a template". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkstar2004 Posted March 8, 2008 Share #107 Posted March 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ahh, fascism, those where the days... The fear of commies of the old days has turned to the fear of terrorists. Oh, and I have the red dots aswell. Must be an allergy. Regarding "terrorists" and "evildoers," I present this jewel of insight into the workings of the mind of the Political Class. From one Lord Henry Kissinger: "What we in America call terrorists are really groups of people that reject the international system..." Henry Kissinger, May 31, 2007 So there you go, folk: Submit, conform, obey. Bow to the will of the Political Class and the international elites who own these totalitarian whores or else you will be branded a terrorist and "dealt with" accordingly. It seems that the Political Class has run out of real enemies to fight and as a result have turned on the citizens of their respective nations - not just in the U.S., but in the UK as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted March 8, 2008 Share #108 Posted March 8, 2008 It seems that the Political Class has run out of real enemies to fight and as a result have turned on the citizens of their respective nations - not just in the U.S., but in the UK as well. ...and in the rest of what we once called 'the free world' as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted March 9, 2008 Share #109 Posted March 9, 2008 The Guardian might not be ever ones favourite read but this is an extremely good piece about the issue we are discussing. Henry Porter: Why I told Parliament: you've failed us on liberty | Comment is free | The Observer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted March 9, 2008 Share #110 Posted March 9, 2008 Keith, thanks for the link to an excellent article. I wonder if this is how it feels to begin the slow slide down the slippery slope into fascism. Alarming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 9, 2008 Share #111 Posted March 9, 2008 Keith, Sobering stuff! Henry Porter's final paragraph epitomises how this country finds itself in the concerning position that is the subject of this thread: "Finally, I want to say something about the phrase 'rights and responsibilities' used by Jack Straw and Gordon Brown in respect of a new bill. This springs from the telling belief among ministers that rights are somehow in the gift of the government and that they are entitled to require people to sign up to a list of responsibilities in exchange. This is arrogant nonsense. The citizen's responsibilities are defined by common, civil and criminal law and ministers display a constitutional impertinence by suggesting otherwise." So much for stealth taxes, this is the kernal of 'stealth control'. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted March 9, 2008 Share #112 Posted March 9, 2008 Keith, many thanks for pointing us to this superb article. Alas, I feel that he may well be a voice crying in the wilderness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted March 9, 2008 Share #113 Posted March 9, 2008 "If a law be bad it is one thing to oppose the practice of it, but it is quite a different thing to expose its errors, to reason on its defects, and to show cause why it should be repealed, or why another ought to be substituted in its place. I have always held it an opinion (making it also my practice) that it is better to obey a bad law, making use at the same time of every argument to show its errors and procure its repeal, than forcibly to violate it; because the precedent of breaking a bad law might weaken the force, and lead to a discretionary violation, of those which are good." From The Rights of Man, Thomas Paine 1791. Jacta est alea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 16, 2008 Share #114 Posted March 16, 2008 There was a good comment on BBC 1's Question Time on Thursday night, directed at government minister Ed Millibob: "1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a template". Put young children on DNA list, urge police | Society | The Observer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2008 Share #115 Posted March 16, 2008 Austin Mitchell's Early Day Motion, tabled in the House of Commons on 11 March, reads: 'That this house is concerned to encourage the spread and enjoyment of photography as the most genuine and accessible people's art; deplores the apparent increase in the number of reported incidents in which police, Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) or wardens attempt to stop street photography, and order the deletion of photographs or the confiscation of cards, cameras or film on various specious grounds such as claims that some public buildings are strategic or sensitive, that children and adults can only be photographed with their written permission, that photographs of police and PCSOs are illegal, or that photographs may be used by terrorists; points out that photography in public places and streets is not only enjoyable but perfectly legal; regrets all such efforts to stop, discourage or inhibit amateur photographers taking pictures in public places, many of which are in any case festooned with closed circuit television cameras; and urges the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers to agree on a photography code for the information of officers on the ground, setting out the public's right to photograph public places thus allowing photographers to enjoy their hobby without officious interference or unjustified suspicion.' Amateur Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted March 16, 2008 Share #116 Posted March 16, 2008 Austin Mitchell's Early Day Motion, tabled in the House of Commons on 11 March, reads: 'That this house is concerned to encourage the spread and enjoyment of photography as the most genuine and accessible people's art; deplores the apparent increase in the number of reported incidents in which police, Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) or wardens attempt to stop street photography, and order the deletion of photographs or the confiscation of cards, cameras or film on various specious grounds such as claims that some public buildings are strategic or sensitive, that children and adults can only be photographed with their written permission, that photographs of police and PCSOs are illegal, or that photographs may be used by terrorists; points out that photography in public places and streets is not only enjoyable but perfectly legal; regrets all such efforts to stop, discourage or inhibit amateur photographers taking pictures in public places, many of which are in any case festooned with closed circuit television cameras; and urges the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers to agree on a photography code for the information of officers on the ground, setting out the public's right to photograph public places thus allowing photographers to enjoy their hobby without officious interference or unjustified suspicion.' Amateur Photographer Excellent news Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leob Posted March 16, 2008 Share #117 Posted March 16, 2008 bad times for the poor bastard who has to do a photo documentary about cctv-cameras and public buildings Probably they will shoot you in a subway station and declare.. Well, he had a rucksack.. and a camera brave new world to me this sounds ridiculous, sounds like the program by the cia/nsa which tries to detect normal behavior which is normal but suspicious so if someone behaves too normal he may be a terrorist, but not everyone who behaves very normal is a terrorist, perhaps you have to be Muslim or something should we all begin to photograph cctv-cameras and stuff, and report ourself to the experienced officer, and if we are enough people, they may start to see who ridiculous it is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 16, 2008 Share #118 Posted March 16, 2008 Great news, Andy, and thanks for posting it! The following, from UK Parliament - Parliament Home Page, indicates that Early Day Motions are a 'good start' but carry little weight on their own. Although I'm not suggesting that this is the case in this instance, it seems that they are sometimes seen by MPs as a useful tool when faced with an awkward issue to satisfy pressure groups that their views have been aired in Parliament. "Early day motions (EDMs) are formal motions submitted for debate in the House of Commons. However, very few EDMs are actually debated. Instead, they are used for reasons such as publicising the views of individual MPs, drawing attention to specific events or campaigns, and demonstrating the extent of parliamentary support for a particular cause or point of view. An MP can add their signature to an EDM to show their support. They can also submit amendments to an existing EDM. Although majority of EDMs are never debated, the group of EDMs known as 'prayers' may be debated. Prayers are motions to overturn Statutory Instruments (laws made by Ministers under powers deriving from Acts of Parliament)." Even though 'prayers' carry more weight it doesn't appear that there is a Statutory Implement to overturn here (or perhaps it's the Terrorism Act 2000?) so it's unlikely that this EDM would become a prayer and it's fate is likely to be that it gently fades into obscurity, along with most of the other EDMs, and little changes. I suggest that the chances of this EDM being debated in Parliament would be improved if it was brought to the attention of a wider audience, say, through the Press. Would Amateur Photographer care to continue its good works and publicise this EDM? Damien, are you out there? Thoughts anyone? Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted March 17, 2008 Share #119 Posted March 17, 2008 Would Amateur Photographer care to continue its good works and publicise this EDM? Damien, are you out there? Maybe we should try to summon him by projecting some kind of signal onto the cloudy night sky. I'm thinking a photograph of a lonely pier silhouetted at sunset, nicely enhanced with a tobacco grad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 17, 2008 Share #120 Posted March 17, 2008 Maybe we should try to summon him by projecting some kind of signal onto the cloudy night sky. I'm thinking a photograph of a lonely pier silhouetted at sunset, nicely enhanced with a tobacco grad... Or this perhaps ... ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/47106-advice-to-photographers-in-uk/?do=findComment&comment=513560'>More sharing options...
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