gmaurizio Posted February 23, 2008 Share #181 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Problems in customer service worldwide, customer dissatisfaction at the pro level, huge unsold inventory of cameras, lack of clear strategy at the PS level, lenses in the $1,500 range cannibalizing its own products, heavily upset dealers due to not eating part of the upgrade-pie... it does not come as a surprise someone got the boot. Will Herr Kaufman continue to loose money with Leica Camera AG division, or is it worth more chopped to pieces and sold to Zeiss, Cosina et al? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 Hi gmaurizio, Take a look here Steven K.Lee gone. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest darkstar2004 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #182 Posted February 23, 2008 I do have to say that I think the new website is truly a poorly thought out and misdirected monstrosity. Leica cameras and lenses have always been made for photographers, not the rich and fabulous. By gearing their website to pander to the rich and fabulous, Leica has made an enormous miscalculation. Even though the current prices of Leica cameras and lenses have ascended to inhabit the exosphere, it is not the rich and fabulous that will ensure Leica's survival. It is the photographer who is willing to sacrifice to own a Leica camera, the photojournalist who works a second job and saves his/her money for years in order to afford a Leica, the imagemaker who is passionate and driven to pursue excellence in his/her art and endures the financial hardship that comes with acquiring Leica cameras and lenses who will be this company's salvation - or their undoing. Quite simply, the rich and fabulous don't give a rat's ass if Leica lives or dies. Photographers, however, do care about Leica's fate; we cannot imagine a world without Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisweeks Posted February 23, 2008 Share #183 Posted February 23, 2008 never really understood the reasoning behind hiring mr. lee, yet i know people who know him and claim he was a pretty good guy. i know there are so many people who love the r system. it is amazing if not rather irrelevant, though, in today's photographic environment. honestly, i think leica should just concentrate on what they're famous for: making m cameras and the amazing glass which makes the m system even more amazing. i just don't see how development of a non-autofocus slr system is relevant. there's no way it will make money. all of that said ... if r glass was ever made to fit my eos1dsm3 ... ah ... i'd order two straight away. at the very least ... i hope leica succeeds as a company ... so i can always get parts and repairs for my mp! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 23, 2008 Share #184 Posted February 23, 2008 all of that said ... if r glass was ever made to fit my eos1dsm3 ... ah ... i'd order two straight away. All you need is an adaptor, available via lots of places on the net... Leica is more than just the "M" line, and has been for 40+ years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted February 23, 2008 Share #185 Posted February 23, 2008 I never imagined the sturm und drang that I was committing to when I bought my M8 system last spring. Given the past and potential future costs to Leica customers all the emotion demonstrated in this thread is well justified I think. Maybe I'm spending too much time following our American presidential politics these days. But somehow I wish there was more of a hint of sex scandal involved in the current dust up. That would just make it perfect. German engineering, American management, fast lenses and loose women... Accompanied by photos for us to critique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #186 Posted February 23, 2008 In the meantime; Turkey has invaded Iraq, seemingly with the advance go-ahead from the White House and the US embassy in Belgrade is burning (no connection) Pete most of these GUYS couldn't give a rat's arse about that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted February 23, 2008 Share #187 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I do have to say that I think the new website is truly a poorly thought out and misdirected monstrosity. Leica cameras and lenses have always been made for photographers, not the rich and fabulous. By gearing their website to pander to the rich and fabulous, Leica has made an enormous miscalculation. Even though the current prices of Leica cameras and lenses have ascended to inhabit the exosphere, it is not the rich and fabulous that will ensure Leica's survival. It is the photographer who is willing to sacrifice to own a Leica camera, the photojournalist who works a second job and saves his/her money for years in order to afford a Leica, the imagemaker who is passionate and driven to pursue excellence in his/her art and endures the financial hardship that comes with acquiring Leica cameras and lenses who will be this company's salvation - or their undoing. Quite simply, the rich and fabulous don't give a rat's ass if Leica lives or dies. Photographers, however, do care about Leica's fate; we cannot imagine the world without Leica. I echo your sentiment. Please add to the list the clergy person with a passion for photography who is by no stretch of the imagination in the upper income category. Cheers, Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1234 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #188 Posted February 23, 2008 Many pages but not all is said! Can a person with a mass marketing background lead a product oriented company making a low volume industrial quality product like Leica? No. It didn't work at Apple computer in the USA either. I feel sorry for Lee who was essentially out of place. Lee was picked by a board wondering what to do when they had lost confidence in their own German leaders. Given the tremendous demands of the German population on companies for high taxes and easy work life a truth telling German that would have to buck the system somewhat can not generate the necessary popularity with the board to get hired as leader so they look outside the country. Familiarity breeds contempt as the saying goes. As political and social liberalism are the environment of modern man, how do you find the success driven conservative necessary to run a corporation? The liberals really stink at running corporations but are more fun at a party! The board needed strong business and technical leaders to push through the slow product oriented development cycle that mass marketers refuse to endure. The M8 with its IR problem was a disaster! As some engineers say 80% of the development time may be spent on the last 20% of the design problems. This takes great personal nerve to go through. Germany's Arriflex is an example of such a company that seems from my USA distant view to handle the tough design challenges well. Since individuals don't run companies now, but boards do, we have a weak system with all the problems of a democracy and its politically patronizing ways and errors. Leica was started under a better system with a stronger human owner/leader concept even though they may have had a board. As some of us say in the USA, Japan's photo industry died with the World War II guys death, maybe this is true with Leica also. Have the next generations lost their strength? Like Carly Forina hired in the USA to run HP, Lee was a "politically correct pick" of the wrong type. Financial and marketing people don't run technical companies well. And few if any women have the essential nerd factor to run a technical company. The single argument with this is the USA's Cisco computer router maker's CEO Chambers who is a finance CEO. But Chambers was only successful in a market where he effectively had a monopoly so he could smash the competition and buy up all the innovations - in a truly competitive market like photography he might classically fail. What Leica needs is what HP needs and still does not have. A technical thinking leader that also produces for photographers a high end product. These people come from engineering and a few from photography itself and a few from general business management. They seldom, maybe never, come from marketing or finance or from mass marking management. The USA New York business model is to take the company over with the finance department and grow it too fast. They produce masses of low grade products while whoring the old company name that previously stood for quality. When profits come they sell the company to another bigger company. None of this will work for Leica. Getting someone from Best Buy was a error of concept drawn from the churn-and-burn New York based corporate model that sold out the USA for producing in China. Does Leica want this? No. They need a technical leader with a business sense or a business leader with a technical sense. What in the USA is called a product oriented company not a marketing or finance based company. They need idea people that are also good at business execution. Good luck. Certainly in a country the size of Germany you have such a person! But how to find them? Tom McDonald, 2-22-2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #189 Posted February 23, 2008 a lone cockroach puts people out of work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted February 23, 2008 Share #190 Posted February 23, 2008 As political and social liberalism are the environment of modern man, how do you find the success driven conservative necessary to run a corporation? The liberals really stink at running corporations but are more fun at a party! Tom McDonald, 2-22-2008 Yes those liberals like Warren Buffet, George Soros and Bill Gates and those bozos at Apple and Google don't know a damn thing about business. If I could only be as incompetent as those bleeding heart pinkos I'd own my own island right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #191 Posted February 23, 2008 Leica need a strategy with digital instead of all this hunting and pecking. Forget the upgrade (expensive confusing, etc). M8.2: $4499 new shutter and sapphire glass (yes, Leica are going to have to learn to drop their prices on older models like everybody else) M9: $7999 (or preferably $6999) full frame, full featured Digital CM (CD?) $1299-1499 35 f2 asph. in 35 format (forget all this 4:3 crap) fast RAWs etc M8 like quality An original point and shoot ala the Ricoh GRD: $799 An original p&s for the rest: $299-399 Market all to photographers, not rich people. I know years ago when I bought my first "new" M the Salgado ads had a profound impact on my decision. And when people go into the store they need price and feature options, both up and down. Rebadged Panasonics just don't cut it. Some people go in with the intent to buy such and such, choke, but have the ability to buy down. Others throw caution to the wind and buy up. Anyway, will be interesting to see where this all leads to. It's really easy to play armchair quarterback when you're not the one having to pay workers pensions. It could play out many different ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joewehry Posted February 23, 2008 Share #192 Posted February 23, 2008 In the LFI 4/2007, Mr. Lee, referring to the Photokina 2008, concludes: "Whether you'll be talking to my successor or me, I think you'll see me there. And I think we'll have a great conversation then." Although the dismissal seems abrupt to us, given the above comment made almost a year ago, I suspect Mr. Lee knew his timeframe at Leica. We should remember that, like us, he is also a Leica fan. He was chosen by Dr. Kaufmann, so must have been qualified and motivated to do what he thought best for Leica, as a business and for the customers. I wish him well, and hope he has great conversations at many Photokinas to come. On a side note, I am surprised, given the Leica brand, to read so many posts from people wishing they could read German. It may come as a shock that it is possible to learn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meakai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #193 Posted February 23, 2008 Perhaps it was the new website what did it. Jeff Maybe it was because of the Summarit line. Bad move in my opinion. I liked the idea of unlimited updates to M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #194 Posted February 23, 2008 Please could one of Manusco's acolytes point him toward this thread so that he could tell us he new about all this days ago? Why would I know or why would i even care and even more important tell this forum anything, no one believes facts around here that is pretty obvious. It's all a scam folks they want all your money and rip you off. Leica was around before him and will be after him. Not much will change. The demise of Mr Lee will have no effect on leica whatsoever. This is a non story. But you all will make it one and leica will go down in flames and your M8 firmware will backfire in your face. There will be no future products and you will all get stuck sitting on 40 k worth of crap. Good luck suckers. Now go put all your gear up for sale and go swim in Nikon and canon gear. Pretty much the bottom line on the last 400 posts on this forum. Folks you need to get on with life. Better yet come up with a real plan for leica to go by. Yea that actually means do some homework. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #195 Posted February 23, 2008 Mr Nasty speaks..................... humm then again he may turn into a Gollum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #196 Posted February 23, 2008 BTW Rhinestone cowboy , i would not travel to the wild west with that kind of name . You would last about 5 minutes and be permanently parked in a cactus. We have REAL cowboys here. There not real hip on funny cowboy names. :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #197 Posted February 23, 2008 Mr Nasty speaks..................... humm then again he may turn into a Gollum Your boring and we all know who the real troll is. Get over being banned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #198 Posted February 23, 2008 Here catch this brick ............... being banned from your little pond was nothing to brag about ion fact I love the idea :D You have been banned for the following reason:No reason was specified. Date the ban will be lifted: Never luv a man with a sense of humour, enjoy Guy,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #199 Posted February 23, 2008 No Imants go play somewhere else , we all know your stick . Not going there little man. BTW Imants this is your last holdout on where you are not banned . Thread lightly. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #200 Posted February 23, 2008 So far, the best hint came from Leica UK ... to quote Amateur Photographer: 'This change of management allows Leica Camera AG to immediately review strategies and make changes where required.' Leica UK's MD David Bell tells AP. 'One of the first tasks for Dr Kaufmann will be to positively review all options for the M system's future. There will be more details in the following weeks.'My guess is that this has a lot to do with the fate of M, I personally think the perpetual M8 upgrade program is a weird one, speaking in other words, it implies that there will no further significant development in the M system. If Dr. Kaufmann has to positively review the options for the M's future, then perhaps Mr. Lee has a negative one and it's touching the nerve of many folks which backfired on him. If at one day Leica declares the death of M ... let's not be surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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