ptomsu Posted February 23, 2008 Share #261 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guy, I think the same. What is strange though is that Lee did not discuss that upfront with Kaufmann and the board of directors. Normally this should be the case and then it should be no issue. But I think that there were general tensions as well between him and Kaufmann. But on the other side this clearly shows that Kaufmann has no knowledge of human nature, because he should have recognized the no fit already before he hired Lee. But this lack of understanding and knowledge is common to a lot of these new rich people like Kaufmann. I am NOT impressed by him, and I am highly doubting the further success of Leica under his guidance. Sorry, but for me these are too many changes in too short time over the last fey years without being really successful with new products. Because also the M8 success is not complete, it will be only if there is a clear future line of M cameras out and accepted - low end model, mid range and high end (FF). And similar for the DSLR system. If after that there would be changes - then fine! But now it is really dangerous and does not increase trust in this company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 Hi ptomsu, Take a look here Steven K.Lee gone. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 23, 2008 Share #262 Posted February 23, 2008 Guy, Damien's been on both this forum and RFF - the way I read this, Damien doesn't have any new information, he's just repeating the speculation here and on RFF for his readership..... Sandy Sandy you know this as well as anyone here that works for a company. Letting out any company secrets is grounds for immediate termination. Now there maybe more to it of course. But these are ground rules 101 for any employee. For a editor than his speculation better be a little more on target than speculation don't you think. He is making his magazine open for liable too. Just find this right on par on what i witnessed at PMA when i walked in, no one was happy with Lee's comments at all. Have fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkchris Posted February 23, 2008 Share #263 Posted February 23, 2008 More information here (objection to interview) Steven K Lee’s sacking and the full frame M - editor's view news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 23, 2008 Share #264 Posted February 23, 2008 From memory what Lee said was that he _hoped_ there'd be a full frame M, that's different from saying there's going to be an full frame M8 in September. I no longer have the copy of AP with the article you can find it here... PMA news: Leica to develop full-frame digital rangefinder camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums Nowhere is Lee explicitly quoted as saying that there'll be a full frame M at the PMA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #265 Posted February 23, 2008 That is a good point about brandname ownership. I never thought it that big a deal, to be honest, and I don't see why you would go up against your flagship dealer over such an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong BUT, Leica Camera AG doesn't own the Leica brand name, right? I seem to have read here or elsewhere that Leica Microsystems is actually the brand owner so what's all the fuss about that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 23, 2008 Share #266 Posted February 23, 2008 Mr. Lee probably got fired after Mr. Kaufman sent his M8 in for "adjustment" and didn't get it back for three months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted February 23, 2008 Share #267 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since there is so much discussion about the unusual style of Mr. Lee's dimissal - has anyone read the original statement on the leica Corporate Website? There you can download Leica's official press release as a pdf file which is worded in the usual way: (My translation) "The Board thanks Mr. Lee for his work and wishes him all the best for the future." What's more, the press release is not advertised as "Leica fires CEO" but as "Leica with new CEO". Leica Camera AG - Investor Relations - Finanzmitteilungen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted February 23, 2008 Share #268 Posted February 23, 2008 Since there is so much discussion about the unusual style of Mr. Lee's dimissal - has anyone read the original statement on the leica Corporate Website? There you can download Leica's official press release as a pdf file which is worded in the usual way: (My translation) "The Board thanks Mr. Lee for his work and wishes him all the best for the future." What's more, the press release is not advertised as "Leica fires CEO" but as "Leica with new CEO". Leica Camera AG - Investor Relations - Finanzmitteilungen Did you read the press release on page one of this thread? It looks different than the one linked at the investors relation site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintoncourier Posted February 23, 2008 Share #269 Posted February 23, 2008 Top executives come and go every day, so why should Leica AG be any different? Especially for a company that is still trying to find the right mix of management talent and solid new product that will attract enough buyers to keep the firm viable. I read through these posts and noted there were no complaints or opinions (at least I didn't see any) coming from those of us who own and use M6 and earlier Leicas. Granted, in today's techno-world of gadgets and gizmos, of cameras with computers that take most of the fun out of photography, of auto-focus lenses that reduce humans to button-pushers, the M8 gets the lumps. I do like my IIIf and antique lenses and my M4P with modern lenses and have no complaints like those raised over the digital M8. I also use Nikon digital and film systems for my professional work and my Leicas for pure pleasure, although I have been known to use the Leicas exclusively for pro work. - Chuck Kershner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 23, 2008 Share #270 Posted February 23, 2008 (My translation) "The Board thanks Mr. Lee for his work and wishes him all the best for the future." What's more, the press release is not advertised as "Leica fires CEO" but as "Leica with new CEO". Leica Camera AG - Investor Relations - Finanzmitteilungen My guess is that the first guy who broke the news was just too thrilled to hear about it and now here comes the official announcement. People, if you think that a company's CEO is not allowed to talk about his product plan, you're downright wrong ... After all, it's all that Leica's product and services matter the most, right? If they can't satisfy their demanding customers, everybody will get the boot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 23, 2008 Share #271 Posted February 23, 2008 Since there is so much discussion about the unusual style of Mr. Lee's dimissal - has anyone read the original statement on the leica Corporate Website? There you can download Leica's official press release as a pdf file which is worded in the usual way: (My translation) "The Board thanks Mr. Lee for his work and wishes him all the best for the future." What's more, the press release is not advertised as "Leica fires CEO" but as "Leica with new CEO". Yes, but the press release followed hours after the original ad hoc notice with its unusually harsh wording: “Der Aufsichtsrat der Leica Camera AG hat am heutigen Tage Herrn Steven K. Lee als Mitglied und Vorsitzenden des Vorstands der Leica Camera AG mit sofortiger Wirkung abberufen.” It looks like after issuing the ad hoc notice they thought better of it and added the customary “Der Aufsichtsrat dankt Herrn Lee für seine Arbeit und wünscht ihm für die weitere Zukunft alles Gute.” to the press release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 23, 2008 Share #272 Posted February 23, 2008 That's the clearest statement of it I've had - and I agree that it's the weak links in the chain, not the general standard of engineering, that compromises the whole. But compromised it is. However, I still use it... and though I will soon by selling one of my bodies and some of my less-used glass, along with my 5d, in order to purchase a 1Ds III, I can't say I look forward to using it! t Exactly Tim, if you are getting a 1DsMk3, I am not surprised you have swapped your Boxster for a Saab (no secrets in this world) in fact that other example of British Engineering a Range Rover might be in order to lug the Canon and its lenses around. ;-}} Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
holmes Posted February 23, 2008 Share #273 Posted February 23, 2008 Leica has had a number of major operating problems for the past number of years. First was their failure to recognize the major changes in the photo scene; i.e. digital. Look at the Japanese companies that are gone. Extend that out to medium format and the same thing has/is occurring. Leica drifted along on Past reputation/performance as the world revolved by. Leica was noted for quality and very high prices for a product, the M, that appealed only to a very limited number of people. When Leica camera folds it will be a footnote in photographic history. I say "folds" as I see no other viable option. Why should a photographer pay the prices for the goods, just because it says "Leica"? In the world of 35 mm digital photography Canon is recognized as tops, followed by Nikon. The giant electronics firms of Japan have the financial muscle, and brand name recognition, to do as they wish on the playing field. I love using my M6 TTL 0.58 and M7 0.58 and 0.72 along with my three lenses: 28 f 2 asph, 35 f2 asph and my 75 f 1.4 with attached hood. I don't see myself purchasing any more Leica camera products. My digital needs are well met by Canon along with their superb lenses. Pentax meets my medium format needs in 6 X 4.5 and 6X7. They were forced into a merger with Hoya and are/have discontinued their medium format line. And so the world of technology and consumer demands change.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted February 23, 2008 Share #274 Posted February 23, 2008 Im not entirely sure when Mr Lee took over but for me the loss of faith in Leica as a company was with its handling of the intro of the M8. The first announcements with regards to lens coding were simply that it was for recording exposure data and sales started to roll out. Then the IR problems were revealed and it became clear that the lens coding was meant to aid with the issues related to the IR problems. They obviously knew of the IR issue in advance. This was a deliberate attempt at deception, even to the extent that reviewers were asked to not mention it. They knew the product was defective and they hoped it would blow over and sorted with the lame IR filter offer. Having used Leica products for a couple of decades this was the first time I ever stopped and questioned their integrity. Although I still use and enjoy my Leica equipment, I have never purchased a new Leica product since yet I know others that sold up all theirs entirely. Mr Lee may not have been responsible for the M8 development but was he the CEO that was responsible for the handling of the IR issue? I think whoever was really did damage to the company's reputation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 23, 2008 Share #275 Posted February 23, 2008 Wilson, I have a D1 and I really like the images it produces for certain subjects/use its great. I have also just bought a Panasonic Clux, and used at the lowest ISO setting, so far, the images look fine. I tried some other digicams and returned a Fuji because that really was bad - a throwaway Kodak film camera really would produce better results. I'm not a huge fan of digital, to me even the best digital is still a compromise of convenience over quality, but the Leica digicams - I'll exlcude the M8 from this - are certainly no worse than anything else out there. James, Apart from also breaking at the time of maximum inconvenience for my wife (in the middle of a cycling trip in Rajasthan) the C-Lux just does not cut the mustard for someone with little to no interest in or knowledge of the technicalities of photography. As far as my wife is concerned, ISO is what you get if you keep your contact lenses in too long. The only practical thing for my wife is a camera which works well on auto ISO or has a low auto range like the Ricoh GX100. The noise levels on auto on the C-Lux in poor lighting or with flash are hopeless, with the end result looking like a pointillist painting. I would have been much better off buying her a small Canon or Sony, which have much lower high ISO noise. I did not like the image colours on my D1 and it had horrible red bleed as well as high noise, plus nasty JPEG compression artifacts if you did not want to use RAW. I understand that the sensor was improved after the first few months and that if you sent your D1 back, it was changed but mine had been stolen by then and I went back to film, mainly with a Contax G2, for a couple of years until I bought the D2, which I liked in spite of its fragility. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica007 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #276 Posted February 23, 2008 Lee is gone, understood. But where have my post gone? Censorship at work, because I criticised Guy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 23, 2008 Share #277 Posted February 23, 2008 Exactly Tim, if you are getting a 1DsMk3, I am not surprised you have swapped your Boxster for a Saab (no secrets in this world) in fact that other example of British Engineering a Range Rover might be in order to lug the Canon and its lenses around. ;-}} Wilson Oh Wilson, how weak your sources are: I also just swapped my Range Rover for an Audi... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 23, 2008 Share #278 Posted February 23, 2008 Audi R8, I hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica007 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #279 Posted February 23, 2008 not sure if you have already seen the real press release, here's a rough translation PRESS RELEASE Solms, den 22. Februar 2008 Leica Camera AG with new chairman of the board Dr. Andreas Kaufmann becomes a member as well as the chairperson of the board of directors of the Leica Camera CORP. with effect from 23 February 2008. He has occupied his office with immediate effect for the execution of daily [tasks] as [per the direction of ?] the supervisory board. The supervisory board decided after detailed considerations and discussions that Mr. Steven K. Lee, the past chairman of the executive committee [should] resign [/or be sacked]. The supervisory board thanks Mr. Lee for his work and wishes him a good future. Dr. Andreas Kaufmann will further pursue/ follow up the strategy of the enterprise, "goal of the Leica Camera AG is to open new markets and target groups, beside the existing ones", explains Dr. Kaufmann. "our name will stand [/remain associated or alive] also in the future in a range of camera [note: not necessarily rangefinder camera, the press release doesn't say Messsuchersystem , i.e. rangefinder system ] and sport optics for high-quality products [with the tag] <Made in Germany>." Dr. Andreas Kaufmann is also the manager of the ACM project development gmbh that controls a share of 96.51 percent of the original capital and the rights to votes of the Leica Camera CORP. Ansprechpartner für Ihre Redaktion Wiebke Deggau / Telefon direkt –450 / Telefax direkt –455 / wiebke.deggau@leica-camera.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 23, 2008 Share #280 Posted February 23, 2008 Audi R8, I hope. Out of deep respect for the planet, yes. Alright, no. An A4. My fast car days are over. :0( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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