captain Posted February 6, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 6, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Usually I would say the lens matters most but in this instance I would have to say go with the M8. It has a lower crop factor. It has micro lenses on the sensor that really do reduce light fall off. Leica has a commitment for upgrades. The Voigtlander lenses mainly loose out at the edges to Leicas so this is cropped out and you can easily trade that lens in on a Leica one later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Hi captain, Take a look here Which is more important: body or lens?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dantist Posted February 6, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 6, 2008 The lens of course ! Low cost body with good lens provides a good picture. Expensive body with bottleneck gives a peanuts picture. At this point, I suggest you an extra : a bad film or a bad sensor will show a bad picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 6, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 6, 2008 The lens of course ! Low cost body with good lens provides a good picture. Expensive body with bottleneck gives a peanuts picture. Agreed, but the Voigtlander 18mm is a very, very good lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhmitchell Posted February 6, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 6, 2008 Joe's comment is fascinating: "In the digital era the body is far more important than it was previously because the sensor's innate IQ and sensitivity and resolution now come into play." He's right. And it's a smart point. The "body" matters far more now than it did in the film era. This is a really interesting point of view. Thanks, Joe! Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 6, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 6, 2008 I guess, being picky, it's the _sensor_ and firmware that are the most important thing. This can't be separated from the body, hence the need to see them an a single unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #26 Posted February 10, 2008 Thanks very much for all the helpful contributions. I haven't made up my mind yet (except that I know for sure I'm getting a Summicron 35mm!), but I'm trending towards the M8. The point about the body being an intrinsic part of the digital system makes a lot of sense to me. And Leica's decision to keep upgrading the M8 instead of replacing it is very comforting (I wish they'd done that with the Digilux 2!); it means this camera will be around for another 2 years or so. Anyway, thanks again. You've been a great help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gIzzE Posted February 10, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree, I wish they would upgrade the Digilux 3 and put a better sensor in there, lower noise levels would be great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #28 Posted February 10, 2008 I agree, I wish they would upgrade the Digilux 3 and put a better sensor in there, lower noise levels would be great. Well, I do like the out-of-camera B&W shots from the D2, and I think Leica judged the sensor size vs megapixel resolution very well. But technically I agree, for the quality of the lens, a better chip/sensor and perhaps 8 megapixels would be a wonderful upgrade. Oh, well. Here's hoping that maybe the next compact from Leica will be a digital Minilux... fixed 2.8/40mm, and I'll drop my GR-D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myc5 Posted February 12, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 12, 2008 Hi. I've been lurking in this forum for a while now, soaking in the knowledge. But now I have a decision to make, and hope to get some advice. I'm getting a windfall soon, and instead of upgrading my car I'm thinking of getting a proper digital rangefinder as an upgrade to my Digilux 2 and GRD (I'll keep one of them for backup; not sure which one yet). The problem is, the amount is comfortable but not bottomless, so I have a choice to make: for the ballpark figure, the dealer is offering me either a second-hand M8 body with new 28mm Nokton lens, or I can get a new Epson RD-1s with 35mm Summicron lens. What would be the best way to sink the cash, given that I probably won't be able to upgrade anything else for the next 2 years? Which of the components is likely to give me that Leica look: the body or the lens? Thanks in advance for any responses. Here's my analysis on this subject and offers a different point of view. What's been offered thus far is great. Digital has certainly put more emphasis on the body. I think you have more than just the two options available. Seems you don't earn a living off your gear (not a bad thing, just observation) so the money you spend on gear is to satisfy personal fullfillment. I bet value for your dollar has some significance to you. You seem to like the 35 cron. I know this is a leica forum, but have a look at the Zeiss 35 ZM. I never used any L glass but am floored by the 35/2 ZM and It's a lot less money. Buy used - camera gear are depreciating assets. Buying used lets you buy more for your money and if you don't like it, you could turn around and sell it without loosing much, if at all. I think you'll get more satisfaction with having a few great lenses than with one great camera. Different lenses offer different perspectives on photographic subjects. The digital revolution has turned cameras pretty much into disposable gear. The verdict is still out on whether the M8 will become a disposable piece of gear. It has a few attributes working for it that are helping to keep it's value. a.) it is still a good imager b.) It's pretty much the ONLY digital M around c.) Leica's recent upgrade policy will continue to breathe life into the M8. Having said that, it has dropped in price since it came out. A dollar spent on glass will outlive the dollar spent on a digital body. Reading other threads it seems the M9 is in the wings. No one knows what specs, when, or at what price point it will be. It might be full frame 18M at twice the price of the M8, which would leave the M8 still a viable price point for people. If it comes out a little higher in price than the M8 did, then you will probably wish you waited for the M9. There's also the possibility of Zeiss and Cosina to come out with their Digital M versions. The M system seems to be quite healthy a market now where the M8 sits with virtually no competition. The digital M space is begging for more competition to enter. My verdict ... spend the money on glass, wait a bit more to see what else comes up in the digital M space. You could also pick up a cheap used Bessa or old leica M film body and shoot film with those same lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 12, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 12, 2008 I am not sure why you think the M9 is on the way? All the comments from Leica indicate otherwise; ie. they are committed to the M8 and upgrading it for the foreseeable future. The M9 is a pipedream at the moment. Maybe we will hear more at photokina, but I am almost positive that it will be no more than commentary on the future, no camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 12, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 12, 2008 Leica's recent upgrade policy will continue to breathe life into the M8. Having said that, it has dropped in price since it came out. It's a pity no one has told Leica about this <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Santa Posted February 20, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 20, 2008 Buy a good lenses and you have lenses for years. Buy the best cam body, and you´ll have the best cam body for about two months, and resting in peace in two years.Compare digital with analog photography is absurd, is like compare a good mechanical automatic clock with a quarzt one. The only thing you have in a cam body is the damm sensor,some circuits, a little software and a magnesium body/pro or a plastic one/amateur. Put an R lenses in a Oly E400 (600€), same Kodak sensor that those in M8´s (6.000€) , and you´ll have a very similar quality (there are some examples in forums out there) . So take your own conclusion about what represent a cam body in digital photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 20, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 20, 2008 Put an R lenses in a Oly E400 (600€), same Kodak sensor that those in M8´s (6.000€)... Really??? I thought they were a different size for a start, regardless of any other differences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrique Santa Posted February 20, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 20, 2008 really:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 20, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 20, 2008 end image results on the net are similar ................most images remain electronic anyway:o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 20, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 20, 2008 Which is more important: body or lens? Lenses by far to me. Bodies change but lenses remain with their own character that you will be happy to retrieve on new bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 21, 2008 stnami is not my name amen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 21, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 21, 2008 Yea I am thinking of becoming a spaghetti western. They call me Stnami, co starring Mick and Raelene (everyone's favourite transvestite)......... the locals in Bullamakenka will be ecstatic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share #39 Posted February 27, 2008 Just a quick update: thank you all who contributed thoughts and tips. In the end I have decided to go back to basics and purchase a Leica MP with 35mm Summicron, with an eye towards a Noctilux (for no reason other than lust!) at the end of the year. Actually, I was thinking of just getting the Zeiss Ikon body with the Summicron and 50mm Summilux. But for the same reason I kept buying new Apple Powerbooks every year for 5 years during the dark times when everyone except the most rabid believers thought that Apple was going to go under, I want to do my share to support a company whose philosophy I believe in. So thank you once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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