Which lightmeter for night photography?

[Angora]

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Hi friends,

 

I'm going into night photography and currently getting adequate equipment: tripod, head... I'll also need a lightmeter.

Because the one embedded on my R6.2 won't be enough for moonlight scenes, I guess

 

So I set my needs :

- basic functions (though some kind of chronometer would be usefull)

- working under negative EVs

- shutter speed of about 10 minutes

- oh and not very expensive, but it seems I won't get cheap meters regarding my demands

 

Sekonic L-358 and Gossen Digipro F (I saw it at a discounted price - 300€) seem to be adequate: the Sekonic goes down to -2EV/30 minutes and the Gossen down to -2,5EV/60 minutes.

I'm leaning toward the first one, because the german meter's ergonomics seem... austere!

 

But I'm not yet decided, maybe others meters I'm not aware of (I'm new to the meters area) are worth taking into consideration.

 

Any comments and recommendations about brands/models/competitive online shops (preferably within the EEC to avoid custom taxes or North America) will be appreciated

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[bartok]

Hi,

 

Most of my work is either made at night or in fading/very dim light - daylight doesn't appeal nearly as much!

 

As a result I've been through a couple of meters, but don't get too hung up on them; a lot of this type of work will require bracketing and compensation for reciprocity failure, as well as knowing your film well.

 

Keeping a diary/log of exposures will help you to judge from experience.

 

Personally, I use the Digipro F and also the Digisix, which has timer watch and alarm functions. I do also use an old analog stopwatch.

 

Not sure where you have looked, but profilmgear seem to have some good deals at the moment.

[bartok]

Here's the link:

 

ProFilmGear.com - Video & Photo Gear Online! > Lightmetres, Lightmetre, Lightmeters, Lightmeter, Light Meter, Gossen, Sekonic

[giordano]

There's precious little choice if you want to get significantly below 0 EV @ ISO100. Which of the two meters looks easier to use with gloves on in the dark?

 

For many night scenes a spot meter would be ideal (allowing you to peg the exposure to a precise part of the image) but the only one I've ever heard of that reads below 1 EV is the old SEI photometer.

 

But how about using a digital camera as an exposure meter? Set exposure to manual, crank the ISO setting to maximum and click away until you find the exposure that gives the effect you need. Transfer this to the real camera (adjusting for different ISO, shape of H&D curve and reciprocity failure) and there you are.

[luigi bertolotti]

Given that you speak of tripod+head, I suppose you aren't thinking of "action" pictures: so, I think that John's advice is right : a rather cheap small digicamera with some moderate zooming (3x, or no zoom at all, but can be useful, I think) and high ISO capabilty; important you can understand clearly the f stops it uses: I have the impression (not experience-based) that in some point & shoot it's not so clear, and of course, beware of uncontrollable auto flashes...

Probably, it can cost no much more than a professional lightmeter : I haven't idea on which model can be right, but there is an impressive number of small digital on the market... impossible there isn't one that can be right.

About lightmeters...years ago, I had a Gossen Lunasix that at that times was by far the most sensitive (-6 or maybe -8 EV 100 ASA) : the problem sometime I had was READING... a small pen-lamp hasn't to be forgotten..

[kodaktrix]

Hi Dude,

 

look for an old Minolta Autometer II. It goes from EV -8 to +25.

 

http://www.cameramanuals.org/minolta_pdf/minolta_auto_meter_ii.pdf

 

Regards

 

Oliver

[SoFi-Chaser]

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Hi there,

 

above exposure-times of one minute, any lightmeter is rather useless, if you want perfectly exposed colour slides or negatives.

Any of the up to twenty different layers of the films behave different concerning reciprocity failure.

There are several films, where you can hardly see a difference (or better: more detail) between one minute and ten, others become simply green, even on sunset ...

Only few films, like the Kodakchrome E200, do have an almost perfect behaviour (especially the red layers perform best, which makes it the colour film for hydrogen-nebulars).

So you first need to know "your" film in detail, before you start with a lightmeter.

 

If you're going on black&white, you still have the general reciprocity failure problem (except hypered Kodak TP - hopefull ythe new Rollei ATP1.1 behaves the same).

 

Your lightmeter has to know the long-time behaviour of any of your your films.

Either you can configure it by hand, or you have to run a test and make a gauge-table on your own.

But if you run tests already, you don't need a lightmeter.

 

If you're just interested in the subject -> well, try to get a meter with the lowest working range possible (there have been some interesting links, already) and just go for it. The most important thing is to have fun with the astonishing results.

 

And if you're working with digital cameras: well, you see the histogram immediately - again you don't really need a lightmeter.

Here my strong recommendation: use low ISO-seetings, do NOT go above 400. For this you might not need the internal noise-reduction (like C offers - but it is only useful in astrophotography, where you have usually have a lot of dark parts in the image).

But take care, any exposuretime longer than two or three minutes will slowly but surely demage your sensor (the numbers of hot-pixel will arise rapidly).

 

A link, that might interest you (and that I mayself found somehow via this forum):

LunarLight Photography

 

However, if you just think of going out at night with a tripod and have a try - well I can only say "welcome to the club". Don't wait too long, the nights are getting shorter today. But again, here you first don't really need a lightmeter.

Do a serie with your preferred color-slide film, starting 1s, 4s, 16s, ... every 2f-stops.

One at f/8 constantly (to see how much the slides really get brighter and to find the point with no improvement - that's your max. future exposure time) and one with the combination your built-in lightmeter roughly gives you at maximum aperture +1 and then combine time and f-stop accordingly up to f/16. Your slides should become fainter, but you'll find the best combination where your lens shows most details.

With bith you shold know the best settings - and if you believe it's too dark -> better push the film. The difference between ten and forty minutes of exposuretime is very, very, low. Don't forget that in those cold nights ;-)

 

best regards

 

Torsten

[Angora]

Thanks for the inputs, chaps!

My preference has always been for street photography, but I'd like to try something else in parallel.

Taking city and landscapes by night is what I would do, because it seems there are still interesting pictures to take after the sun is down.

 

 

Dominic and Torsten, knowing my film and the reciprocity failure is something I didn't think about

I appreciate your explanations and recommendations which will be studied carefully.

Concerning the Digipro F, it seems it has no backlight, unlike the Sekonic? Reading should be difficult in darkness, how do you proceed Dominic?

 

John and Luigi, indeed the Gossen looks easier to use with gloves... and its handling seems more comfortable, despite it not having a jog dial.

As for the P&S metering, it would be cheaper but I'm afraid I would quickly become annoyed by the procedures it requires (as the camera is not designed to primarily serve as a meter).

 

Luigi and Oliver, the Lunasix and Autometer have impressive specs! But I'll play it safer by getting a first hand model and avoiding traditional reading in order to optimize reading in darkness.

 

 

So I'll try Torsten's method, but as I'm not good with numbers a meter will surely help

[earleygallery]

I agree, a light meter is pretty much useless for night photography, unless in a well lit enviroment at night, i.e. a street with lights from shops, streetlamps etc.

 

For general scenes there is in my opinion only one method. Trial and error. Take several shots at different exposures, try seconds and minutes. It all depends on the scene, ambient light, distance, film, lens etc etc. You will very soon get a feel for what will work.

[giordano]

knowing my film and the reciprocity failure

 

The data sheets for professional colour reversal films should include information on reciprocity law failure. For example, the sheet for Provia 100F on the Fujifilm website says zero correction is needed for exposures between 1/4000 and 128 sec (reciprocity failure occurs with extremely short exposures too) ; at four minutes, it recommends a 2.5G colour correction filter and give 1/3 stop additional exposure. Exposure times longer than 8 minutes are not recommended with this film.

 

It's decades since I've done this for real, but as far as I can remember a CC-10G filter is pale green and a CC-2.5G would be very pale green. So with this film at least, even at four minutes exposure the time and colour adjustment is significant only for critical work.

[peter_n]

What you need is a Quantum Calcu-Light XP. It has a measurement range of -7EV to 21EV for ISO100 film. Both reflected and incident and very accurate against my Minolta III F and various camera bodies that I trust. It has a digital readout with memory recall, is amazingly sensitive, and the batteries last for years. The meter is discontinued but you can pick them up on eBay for around $60. Here is a link to the manual: Quantum Calcu-Light XP and below is a pic of mine.

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[Angora]

John, do you mean that filters are needed for those who want the best results possible, but that not using filters will still lead to satisfying results?

 

Peter, it seems that its qualities are sought after, nothing on the bay currently

[giordano]

John, do you mean that filters are needed for those who want the best results possible, but that not using filters will still lead to satisfying results?

 

That's about right. Even for those who want the best results possible filters are seldom needed because minor colour correction can easily be done in the software.

[peter_n]

Peter, it seems that its qualities are sought after, nothing on the bay currently

They are often misspelled but you are correct, there is nothing there at the moment. If you are really interested, best to create a saved search and let eBay do the work for you.

[marknorton]

OK, I don't do film but the issue for night shooting is the very wide dynamic range to capture from highlights to shadows. I use a Pentax Digital Spotmeter to meter the highlights and set that as my minimum exposure, then bracket to increase the exposure in steps and so open up the shadows at the expense of highlight detail.

 

I think general metering is always going to be a trial because of the necessary averaging which a meter will do.

[SoFi-Chaser]

[...]

Taking city and landscapes by night is what I would do, because it seems there are still interesting pictures to take after the sun is down.

There's one thing, I forgot to mention:

in cities you often have many spots that you should avoid to measure. for this you need e really good spot-meter. This can be a SLR-Body with a tele-lens in spot-metering-mode.

For example walls in several meter distance to the lighting source.

Here you only have to get some experience, which parts of the image have the "correct" illumination.

But normally at exactly those areas you'll have enough light to use an R5 or R8.

 

When shooting landscapes at night, the moon is usually the only light-source.

And even if you get the correct illumination in % for your calculations, the transperancy of the athmosphere can hardly be seen by your eyes, but your film will do so.

 

For those purposes a digital camera with at least 1600 Iso and 30s or more exposure time at f2.8 is enough to see via histogram if you need two f-stop more or not.

You just need a fix value and recalculate to your film-speed (remember: max 400ISO, better 100 or even less).

 

Good luck, actually it's rather full moon.

CLEAR SKIES

 

Torsten

[spydrxx]

I've never found light meters to be particularly practical in night shooting. I think generally as good results can be obtained by using "The New Jiffy Calculator", using data from the "Ultimate Exposure Computer" by Fred Parker. Do a quick Google, as I've lost the link...but it is free but for the cost of one or two printed sheets of paper.

[SoFi-Chaser]

I've never found light meters to be particularly practical in night shooting. I think generally as good results can be obtained by using "The New Jiffy Calculator", using data from the "Ultimate Exposure Computer" by Fred Parker. Do a quick Google, as I've lost the link...but it is free but for the cost of one or two printed sheets of paper.

 

here it is

 

Ultimate Exposure Computer

 

 

THX for the hint, I've forgotten the link myself

 

... 'til now ;-)

 

Regards

 

T.

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[Angora]

Thanks for the advices you added, guys!

 

I've received my tripod and camera plate, the ballhead should arrive in few days, so I'll try night shots soon