Survey: Leica M EV1 – Future or mistake?

[LocalHero1953]

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4 hours ago, adan said:

Hmmm - With 8 billion people in the world, 51 (the curent absolute count) is a microscopic rounding error from "zero." 0.00000001 %. 😁

Despite your mischievous comment, I'm sure you know that's how polls work: they're an attempt at statistical sampling (in this case though, more like wetting a finger and holding it in the air). One could equally (and obviously incorrectly) argue from these figures that 800,000,000 people will buy it.

One could safely argue that such polls are meaningless. Nevertheless I think there is evidence here that the strong negative response shown in the initial responses to the EV1 isn't borne out by the results from anonymous poll clicks.

[250swb]

If Leica had called it something else and not fitted it into the M family of cameras I'd have voted positively for it on the basis of 'each to his/her own', just as I'd vote in favour of the Q or SL series without wanting to own one. But I don't understand how encouraging figures are being seen in the survey so far, at the moment 62.83% of Leica users won't even be dreaming about buying one and 26% are sitting on the fence. 

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If Leica had called it something else and not fitted it into the M family of cameras I'd have voted positively for it on the basis of 'each to his/her own', just as I'd vote in favour of the Q or SL series without wanting to own one. But I don't understand how encouraging figures are being seen in the survey so far, at the moment 62.83% of Leica users won't even be dreaming about buying one and 26% are sitting on the fence. 

The camera is intended for a minority of existing M users. I would be worried if the majority of rangefinder owners were to replace their rangefinders with the M-EV1, which is not Leica's intention. Their intention is not to lose M owners who cannot or do not want to deal with a rangefinder anymore.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

The camera is intended for a minority of existing M users. I would be worried if the majority of rangefinder owners were to replace their rangefinders with the M-EV1, which is not Leica's intention. Their intention is not to lose M owners who cannot or do not want to deal with a rangefinder anymore.

Ever heard of a Visoflex?

[SrMi]

Just now, 250swb said:

Ever heard of a Visoflex?

Yes, but M-EV1 is better than M11 with Visoflex (and lighter, and less expensive).

[250swb]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

Yes, but M-EV1 is better than M11 with Visoflex (and lighter, and less expensive).

And how do such arguments in favour of the M-EV1 fit with the slagging that Sony and Fuji alternatives got on the forum over the years? I get it, it's the badge isn't it.

[LocalHero1953]

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4 hours ago, Virtus said:

The funny thing is that out of all those "50%" who seem excited by the idea, only 10% out of the total (that is roughly 20% of the "excited by the idea" crowd) who actually voted with their pockets. I'd say it's a pretty revealing fact. 

What percentage of respondents here would you expect to buy the EV1 if it had had more acceptable characteristics and a lower price?

After eliminating all those who still don't have the money, those who have decent working M10 or M11 and aren't ready to change, those who have an affection for the digital Leica M but no wish to own one (me) - what would be a good result for Leica in terms of percent of respondents willing to vote with their pockets?

Edited 12 hours ago by LocalHero1953

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, 250swb said:

And how do such arguments in favour of the M-EV1 fit with the slagging that Sony and Fuji alternatives got on the forum over the years? I get it, it's the badge isn't it.

Speaking from my own long experience with those brands, Sony and Fuji cameras are much less enjoyable to use. If you do not understand why people use Leicas, I wonder why you own them. It was never the spec dominance, and it's certainly not the badge.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What percentage of respondents here would you expect to buy the EV1 if it had had more acceptable characteristics and a lower price?

After eliminating all those who still don't have the money, those who have decent M10 or M11 and aren't ready to change, those who have an affection for the digital Leica M but no wish to own one (me) - what would be a good result for Leica in terms of percent of respondents willing to buy?

You could be right, I'm told on good authority the camera is meant for a minority audience who 'cannot or do not want to deal with a rangefinder any more'. So the beneficence of Leica is shone on photographers and a great change in tack from motives of profit.

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You could be right, I'm told on good authority the camera is meant for a minority audience who 'cannot or do not want to deal with a rangefinder any more'. So the beneficence of Leica is shone on photographers and a great change in tack from motives of profit.

I would certainly not call myself 'authority,' I am no @jonoslack 🤣.

[250swb]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

If you do not understand why people use Leicas, I wonder why you own them. 

Simple, I've had a Leica M continuously since my first M2 that I needed for work, bought secondhand in 1978, and I have amassed a lot of bits of one sort or another that fit onto them over time. I bow to your long experience with Sony and Fuji, never had one.

[frame-it]

24 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What percentage of respondents here would you expect to buy the EV1 if it had had more acceptable characteristics and a lower price?

 

remember when everyone dissed anything over 24MP?? they still went and bought the SL2, the M10R, the M11, Q2++ etc

they hated IBIS, but loved using their M/R lenses on the SL2++, now many keep asking for IBIS on the M

This is the LUF...everyone grumbles and complains at first, after a while many buy the latest releases...after a cooling off period🤣🤣 🤣

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

There's already one member of the forum who was 'speechless' when it was launched, but still posted prolifically against it, then went out and bought one and quite likes it now.

"There's nowt so queer as folk", to paraphrase Aristotle.

[fiatlux]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What percentage of respondents here would you expect to buy the EV1 if it had had more acceptable characteristics and a lower price?

After eliminating all those who still don't have the money, those who have decent working M10 or M11 and aren't ready to change, those who have an affection for the digital Leica M but no wish to own one (me) - what would be a good result for Leica in terms of percent of respondents willing to vote with their pockets?

Leica is good at filling niches in the market. I don't think they expect to sell a many EV1s as M11s. Jono Slack believes that the M EV1 could be a good companion to an M11.

I'll stick with my M11 personally, and occasionally use the accessory EVF (or simply the rear screen live view) when I need to accurately focus fast lenses or frame super-wide ones, but I could see how the two could indeed complement each other. Especially for (wealthy) pros who would be well inspired to have a backup camera anyway.

One think that disappoints me a bit is the lack of refined focusing options on the M EV1. Peaking and zooming can be distracting and slow, and nothing really new compared to what the competition offers. That Leica does not offer something like Nikon's Zf focus confirmation or Fuji's digital RF is a bit disappointing, when the camera is meant to be used exclusively in manual focus...

Edited 11 hours ago by fiatlux

[frame-it]

42 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There's already one member of the forum who was 'speechless' when it was launched, but still posted prolifically against it, then went out and bought one and quite likes it now.

"There's nowt so queer as folk", to paraphrase Aristotle.

 

And..

The m12 body might possibly be slightly different, as they are re-purposing the existing m11 [discontinued] bodies

https://chatsphotog.com/musings/f/stefan-daniel-on-the-leica-m-ev1

[Chris Au]

I had the M240 and M10 but ageing eyes gave me a problem with the rangefinder. I had always wanted an M EVF but now I have already switched to a SL2S with has IBIS and autofocus. So, the new M EVF is too late for me.

[pippy]

2 hours ago, fiatlux said:

Leica is good at filling niches in the market...

I think that this should be bourne in mind.

How many camera manufacturers would have considered creating a digital camera which only records images in monochrome? How many camera manufacturers would have thought about designing a digital camera without a screen? Yet Leica have released 5 iterations of the former (4 x M; 1 x Q) and have released three versions of the latter.

It could be reasoned that as there is already a well-established market for cameras which feature an electronic viewfinder the decision to go down that route seems perfectly logical and could attract the attention / cash of many photographers who are, perhaps, not usually in the market for an M body.

Philip.

Edited 9 hours ago by pippy

[lexffm]

Leica has now made a start. If they now combine an analog M (film) with the EVF, a 75-year-old problem will finally be solved. @Leica, are you up for the challenge?

[JNK100]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

You could be right, I'm told on good authority the camera is meant for a minority audience who 'cannot or do not want to deal with a rangefinder any more'. So the beneficence of Leica is shone on photographers and a great change in tack from motives of profit.

Leica is a business I believe.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[250swb]

56 minutes ago, JNK100 said:

Leica is a business I believe.

So why is it said (allegedly) the camera is for a minority? I didn't say it, I was just being sarcastic.