Survey: Leica M EV1 – Future or mistake?

[michaelbrenner]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I find the mounted Visoflex is a bit of a crutch; it is often in the way when handling or storing the camera, and makes the camera feel bigger. There are M owners who use the rangefinder mainly because it comes with the M. 😄

Yes, agreed.  Having the external EVF attached is an unwelcome addition to the size and portability of the M.  Typically, I use the external EVF as a crutch to assist with dialing in focus in low light with a narrow depth of field, large-aperture lenses, and it never fails to pop off in my little Domke bag as it catches on the front internal pocket.  Grrr...

Too bad Leica can't include the EVF as a HUD across the RF (activated with the press of a button, of course).  Now THAT would be COOL!  You could also quickly check exposure, depth of field and take a quick peak at the exposure graph quickly.  Maybe they could "borrow" a page from Fuji... hehe.

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[SrMi]

56 minutes ago, michaelbrenner said:

Yes, agreed.  Having the external EVF attached is an unwelcome addition to the size and portability of the M.  Typically, I use the external EVF as a crutch to assist with dialing in focus in low light with a narrow depth of field, large-aperture lenses, and it never fails to pop off in my little Domke bag as it catches on the front internal pocket.  Grrr...

Too bad Leica can't include the EVF as a HUD across the RF (activated with the press of a button, of course).  Now THAT would be COOL!  You could also quickly check exposure, depth of field and take a quick peak at the exposure graph quickly.  Maybe they could "borrow" a page from Fuji... hehe.

Fuji's approach would work only if you eliminate the rangefinder.

[JNK100]

6 hours ago, SrMi said:

Fuji's approach would work only if you eliminate the rangefinder.

100%agree with you on this.

[FrozenInTime]

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

Fuji's approach would work only if you eliminate the rangefinder.

Or if they replaced the all optical offset path with a small imaging sensor, digitized the RF cam position input, and overlayed with appropriate offset and scaling. Digital offset sensor could alternatively be overlayed with the main sensor image, provided there was calibration for focus breathing ( here Leica could have a unique advantage by only including calibration for their 6-bit and back catalogue lenses ). 

[JNK100]

31 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Or if they replaced the all optical offset path with a small imaging sensor, digitized the RF cam position input, and overlayed with appropriate offset and scaling. Digital offset sensor could alternatively be overlayed with the main sensor image, provided there was calibration for focus breathing ( here Leica could have a unique advantage by only including calibration for their 6-bit and back catalogue lenses ). 

How likely is this do you think?

[FrozenInTime]

16 minutes ago, JNK100 said:

How likely is this do you think?

Small Full HD sensors from on-semi are selling on Digikey for ~ $20 

Absolute position Hall-effect angular position encoders are ~$4

It would seem to be quite cheap to implement.

 

[Lightwrangler]

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb FrozenInTime:

Small Full HD sensors from on-semi are selling on Digikey for ~ $20 

Absolute position Hall-effect angular position encoders are ~$4

It would seem to be quite cheap to implement.

 

This seems to be a quick and cheap no-brainer. So why don't you give it a try and report your achievements to Leica? There might be a six-figure job in for you. 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, FrozenInTime said:

Or if they replaced the all optical offset path with a small imaging sensor, digitized the RF cam position input, and overlayed with appropriate offset and scaling. Digital offset sensor could alternatively be overlayed with the main sensor image, provided there was calibration for focus breathing ( here Leica could have a unique advantage by only including calibration for their 6-bit and back catalogue lenses ). 

 

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Patented ten years ago and discarded since then as not viable. 

https://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/

[FrozenInTime]

18 minutes ago, jaapv said:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Patented ten years ago and discarded since then as not viable. 

https://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/

Not sure about when pigs fly; what was not viable ten or more years ago will be a lot easier to implement in today's electronics.

[jaapv]

I doubt that they will reconsider it; the whole thing about the EV1 is simplifying, not introducing complications. After all, this is a camera that cannot be expected to sell in large numbers. Every extra Euro spent on R&D is one too much. 

[FrozenInTime]

31 minutes ago, Lightwrangler said:

This seems to be a quick and cheap no-brainer. So why don't you give it a try and report your achievements to Leica? There might be a six-figure job in for you. 

I am a retired EE.  But, it seems sufficiently defined to pass on to a local university; mechatronics and image processing require very little lab set up costs. 

[JNK100]

2 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Small Full HD sensors from on-semi are selling on Digikey for ~ $20 

Absolute position Hall-effect angular position encoders are ~$4

It would seem to be quite cheap to implement.

 

If Leica can do this for $24, it would be a good idea to let them know.

[michaelbrenner]

15 hours ago, SrMi said:

Fuji's approach would work only if you eliminate the rangefinder.

I’m an idea guy and will leave it to the Engineers to actually make it happen… 😉 with that said, it is a bit intriguing to consider a digital rangefinder  in which the EVF is overlaid with the rangefinder.

However, what makes the rangefinder such a personal experience is the window finder, which facilitates a direct, personal connection with the subject, uninterrupted, unlike with an SLR which momentarily goes black at shutter activation.

An EVF is much like talking to someone on a radio versus in person.  Always, an EVF displays the past while a window finder provides a direct view to the present.

So, a HUD activated by a button press seems an elegant compromise.  The photographer could take a quick peak as needed to observe a live view, exposure graph, settings and so on.

[cnguyen]

Less choices with M EV1 - from m240, m10, m11 I have 3 ways of viewing the image - optical RF, lcd and evf . Now with M EV1 I only have lcd and evf built in.

Call it progress ? Probably not.

Also Leica butchered M EV1 US release - we still don't have the M EV1 camera stocked. 

[SrMi]

29 minutes ago, cnguyen said:

Less choices with M EV1 - from m240, m10, m11 I have 3 ways of viewing the image - optical RF, lcd and evf . Now with M EV1 I only have lcd and evf built in.

Call it progress ? Probably not.

Also Leica butchered M EV1 US release - we still don't have the M EV1 camera stocked. 

M-EV1 is not thought of as "progress" but as another option. If you are not shooting with a rangefinder anyway, the built-in EVF is usually a better option than the Visoflex 2.

You should blame the US government (shutdown) for the lack of M-EV1 cameras (and high prices), not Leica.

Edited 7 hours ago by SrMi

[CDodkin]

3 hours ago, cnguyen said:

Less choices with M EV1 - from m240, m10, m11 I have 3 ways of viewing the image - optical RF, lcd and evf . Now with M EV1 I only have lcd and evf built in.

Call it progress ? Probably not.

Also Leica butchered M EV1 US release - we still don't have the M EV1 camera stocked. 

Huge progress. We finally have WYSIWYG composition, the ability to use any focal length, real time exposure preview, real time DOF, real time focus precision even at f/1, real time over exposure warning, HUD, artificial horizon, the ability to 'see' in B&W as well as color in real time while shooting - the list goes on.

Leica did nothing wrong for their US launch - the hold up is the US Govt shutdown - Leica can't fix that.

And you have more choices with the M EV1 - you can choose a film Leica M, a Rangerfinder Leica M, or an EVF Leica M - choice is a wonderful thing.