M-A, MP, M6 re-issue frame counter

[colint544]

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Does anyone know whether the frame counter mechanism on any of the current Leica film cameras still has the plastic part of the 90's M6 which could fail? Or have Leica remedied this?

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[TomB_tx]

Having used my M6 for 40 years, I don't think it matters.

[Roy Bigsby]

The frame counter on my M6 2022 reissue recently failed, so I'd guess they are still using plastic parts (I still haven't got it fixed, so I can't say for sure). In a recent post here (less than a week ago), someone mentioned the counter failing on their new M-A. 

[FrozenInTime]

@Roy Bigsby Disappointing to hear. Back in 1998 one failed on me 

[erl]

They are machines. Something has to fail sometime. Even I am not indestructible.

Meanwhile, both my M6's from 1997 are powering along, and keeping count.

[colint544]

9 hours ago, Roy Bigsby said:

The frame counter on my M6 2022 reissue recently failed, so I'd guess they are still using plastic parts (I still haven't got it fixed, so I can't say for sure). In a recent post here (less than a week ago), someone mentioned the counter failing on their new M-A. 

Cheers for the reply. Interesting, and a bit disappointing, if they're still using the part. I think it's a plastic gear wheel, with the frame counter glued on top. My friend had a mid-nineties M6, and his frame counter failed. I had a 1984 version, built before Leica cut that particular corner, and that camera is still going strong, albeit the meter doesn't work any more.

[colint544]

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10 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Having used my M6 for 40 years, I don't think it matters.

It matters enough for you to respond straight out of the traps, without reading the post, and answering a question I didn't ask.

If you've been using an M6 for 40 years, yours will be an early camera, not one from the nineties, so you would never experience the issue.

[105012]

I was in a Leica repair shop a few years back and the owner was cursing the plastic gear sitting broken on his bench top. His words were to the effect that all the plastic ones will fail one day... I imagine a nice brass gear could be substituted if one had them available or could make them?

[colint544]

2 minutes ago, 105012 said:

I was in a Leica repair shop a few years back and the owner was cursing the plastic gear sitting broken on his bench top. His words were to the effect that all the plastic ones will fail one day... I imagine a nice brass gear could be substituted if one had them available or could make them?

Thanks for the helpful reply. Looks - anecdotally anyway - as though Leica are likely still using that same part. Partly I asked the question because I saw that the pope's special Leica M-A is going to be auctioned. It's thought it could sell for 80,000 EUR+, and I wondered if it too had that glued plastic frame counter.

The other part of the reason I asked such a trivial question, of course, was to see just how petty, scolding, and unhelpful some of the replies might be. I've not been disappointed!

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[Matlock]

The only Leica M that I have with a failed frame counter is my1973 M5 if that helps.

[erl]

Stir the pot and you are bound to get some bubbles! 😉

Segue into what's likely to fail. Most likely the glue attaching the counter disc to the gear, rather than the gear itself. Plastic gears, properly designed, can be extremely reliable. I have had a Durst bench top colour processor for printing for I don't know how many years. It has a high volume of plastic gears that drive the entire machine that has done incredible hours of continuous work. It is still functional, although not being used now.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, colint544 said:

 

The other part of the reason I asked such a trivial question, of course, was to see just how petty, scolding, and unhelpful some of the replies might be. I've not been disappointed!

 

Formula 1 cars are mostly made of plastic, the Airbus A350 is 52% plastic, and the worlds oceans are full of plastic, so it's tough stuff. But you'll say 'ah but.....' and you are right, there are all sorts of different types of plastic. But what you are actually asserting is that the plastic part Leica use is the same plastic used throughout the development of the M6, MP, M-A, and M6 reborn. and so by default it's sure to fail. An alternative view to serve as an example could be a car interior, 40 years ago it may have seemed luxurious and drivers would lovingly run their hands over the fine plastic mouldings, but 40 years on and we'd call it 'a cheap plastic interior' because while the textures may be the same the plastic we have now is harder wearing and stronger. Or you are completely correct, Leica are still using the very same plastic part, indeed they may all be coming from the same box that was delivered 40 years ago.

There's also the consideration of what caused the early plastic parts to fail, and an engineer wouldn't immediately blame the plastic but also look at how the other parts are interacting with it. So maybe the brass or steel gears weren't fettled enough, or the bearing the plastic part sits on would fail and cause the plastic part to slip and break. For these situations there is another automotive analogy. Enzo Ferrari was very proud of his engines, but in one race the car came to a grinding halt and the official cause or retirement was listed as 'electrical failure', which was caused by a piston going through the block and knocking the alternator off. 

I see Erl was on a similar track while I was typing.

Edited September 17 by 250swb

[FrozenInTime]

1 hour ago, colint544 said:

Thanks for the helpful reply. Looks - anecdotally anyway - as though Leica are likely still using that same part. Partly I asked the question because I saw that the pope's special Leica M-A is going to be auctioned. It's thought it could sell for 80,000 EUR+, and I wondered if it too had that glued plastic frame counter.

The other part of the reason I asked such a trivial question, of course, was to see just how petty, scolding, and unhelpful some of the replies might be. I've not been disappointed!

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The perfect jacket to compliment that camera:

 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, colint544 said:

Thanks for the helpful reply. Looks - anecdotally anyway - as though Leica are likely still using that same part. Partly I asked the question because I saw that the pope's special Leica M-A is going to be auctioned. It's thought it could sell for 80,000 EUR+, and I wondered if it too had that glued plastic frame counter.

The other part of the reason I asked such a trivial question, of course, was to see just how petty, scolding, and unhelpful some of the replies might be. I've not been disappointed!

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Well, if you were angling for trivial replies:  It is not plastic but nylon and Leica uses other plastic parts in their cameras that fail, like the sensing lugs in digital M shutters, battery locks in X cameras, etc,