Leica M with Pentax lens or Q

[dreh23]

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Hello Leica Community,

My first post.

I did a lot of artistic 35mm photography 20 years ago. My Pentax MX is in storage with my beloved 50mm 1.4 Pentax lens. I do want to start again making photos (without my phone) and want to buy a Leica. I am unsure if I should buy a Q(2) for the "simplicity" of use or should I get an older M camera (M10 or 240) and adapt my Pentax lens to it.

Budget is around 2-3k EUR.

I am technically a beginner again (due to practice) and have no particular goal other than fun. I normally do like technical limitations, because I believe that helps to be a better artist.

My question is: Buying an M and using my Pentax lens is a viable option to start or should I buy a Q?

Can I have your opinion?

Thanks for your time!

Joe

 

[TomB_tx]

Welcome to the forum! I've shot Pentax along with Leica M cameras since the 1960s and the MX is my favorite Pentax. Pentax lenses can be very good, and while I like the older screw mount Super Takumars for their solid construction, the compact M series are also very good.

There are a number of adapters that "can" mount Pentax lenses on a Leica M, but with one exception none will allow you to use the wonderful M rangefinder to focus - which is the main reason to use a Leica M. An M10 or 240 can use live view (or accessory "Visoflex" electronic finder) to focus Pentax lenses as if using a "mirrorless" digital camera - but that's rather clunky compared to using the rangefinder. There is one adapter (I forget the brand) that has it's own focusing mount with the cam mechanism to allow focus with the M rangefinder, but it only works that way with a 50mm lens. Other focal lengths still need live view to focus on an M. I tested that adapter on a Pentax 50 f1.2 lens and it works pretty well, if you remember to leave the Pentax lens focus at infinity and do the actual focusing with the adapter.

I found the best way to use Pentax (and other SLR) lenses on full-frame digital it to use adapters to a Sony A7 series body. I got a basic A7 and have had very good results with SLR lenses on it. The original A7 is a bargain on the used market. Later models (like A7III) add stabilization, so are better for long lenses.

The Leica M cameras work best with M-mount lenses that properly link to the rangefinder. The M10 is my favorite M digital, but I no longer buy Leica lenses to use with it, because Voigtlander and others now make excellent M mount lenses for reasonable prices. So if you really want the "M" experience I'd suggest a digital M body and Voigtlander lens - which are also a bargain on the used market. 

Otherwise, to use your Pentax lenses consider a Sony A7. Set it up for aperture preferred and use it like an LX.

[Dan Bachmann]

The Pentax lenses won’t be rangefinder coupled so you would have to guess the focusing with them. If it is a digital M(24x)/M10/M11 you could use live view but that defeats the point. 
 

It sounds like you’d be best with a Q. 
 

(or go for the M and find a second hand rangefinder coupled lens)

[Chris W]

I own some screw mount Pentax lenses and they are superb, I use them with an adapter on my SL2-S.

On an M, I would only use M mount lenses, kind of defeats the point otherwise. A Q seems like a very different proposition to an M - autofocus vs rangefinder manual focus. 

Deciding between those workflows will lead you than answer.

I can use manual focus Pentax and M mount lenses on my SL2-S, as well as autofocus L mount lenses.

[wda]

Joe, welcome to the forum. I endorse Chris W's advice.

As we age we look for alternative  image framing and rangefinder solutions.   I chose the SL2S route purely for these reasons.

Imaging accuracy is impeccable, especially with built in focusing aids such as magnification and focus peaking. If you have a Leica dealer near you, say one you could comfortably visit in a day, I suggest you introduce yourself by telephone and see if they can set up a demonstration for you. Apart from the added bulk and weight, you will be amazed by the ease of framing and focusing. No more parallax errors and framing inaccuracies 

As the Leica SL3S has now been launched, the SL2S might comfortably fit  your budget.

[TomB_tx]

Just to clarify: if you only want to try your Pentax 50 f1.4 lens on a Leica M the Shoten PK-LM R50 adapter will couple it to the Leica M rangefinder so you can focus it by rangefinder. I tried it and it is quite accurate, but only for 50mm lenses.

[250swb]

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It's also possible to use the Leica Visoflex Typ 020 with the M10 to focus non-coupled lenses. It's a great shame to throw out the possibility of using many great lenses from other manufacturers (some as good as Leica M lenses) for the sake of getting a cheap adapter to make them work, and which is only a spacer so no mechanical perfection is required. The Visoflex for the M240 is the same Epson unit used by Olympus, the VR2, it's adequate if you only assume it's for composition and focusing but the resolution nowadays is poor, however if you bought a M240 the Olympus version is much cheaper. The advantage of a Visoflex is you get to see and compose accurately wider than 28mm and longer than 135mm, so a massive number of lenses are opened up.

[masjah]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

It's also possible to use the Leica Visoflex Typ 020 with the M10 to focus non-coupled lenses. It's a great shame to throw out the possibility of using many great lenses from other manufacturers (some as good as Leica M lenses) for the sake of getting a cheap adapter to make them work, and which is only a spacer so no mechanical perfection is required. The Visoflex for the M240 is the same Epson unit used by Olympus, the VR2, it's adequate if you only assume it's for composition and focusing but the resolution nowadays is poor, however if you bought a M240 the Olympus version is much cheaper. The advantage of a Visoflex is you get to see and compose accurately wider than 28mm and longer than 135mm, so a massive number of lenses are opened up.

My first foray into any sort of digital photography was an M240 with Visoflex, and R-M adapter for all my R lenses, when I moved away from  my R9.

It served me well for my own style of photography (essentially static subjects) but the other problem with the Visoflex was a slow response to moving subjects. I replaced it with an SL2, but did use it with a 35/2.4 Summarit M until a worsening tremor forced a change to a Q3.

 

 

[Chris W]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

It's also possible to use the Leica Visoflex Typ 020 with the M10 to focus non-coupled lenses. It's a great shame to throw out the possibility of using many great lenses from other manufacturers (some as good as Leica M lenses) for the sake of getting a cheap adapter to make them work, and which is only a spacer so no mechanical perfection is required.

For me it's a shame to embark on an M body purchase only to not use M mount lenses. M cameras are expensive, even the M240. It seems pointless.

There are better, often cheaper options, like the SL series, or Fujifilm.

I have L mount lenses, Pentax Takumar, Nikon F and I've used them all over the years with Sigma L mount and Leica L mount (CL, SL), never with my M body.

If rangefinder focussing on a compact body is the goal, then there are very affordable M mount Voigtlander lenses one can purchase.

 

[dreh23]

Thanks for all your input!

I believe I understand the M Camera better now. So from your comments I excerpt following:

1. Using an adaptor the M camera mostly is loosing the rangefinder functionality which is a core part of the value proposition of the M system. It is possible but your a mostly limited to a digital view, which can be OK as a compromise but is maybe not sufficient as a main solution.

2. If I want to use my Pentax lens I can go better (and cheaper) with alternative cameras bodies like the mentioned Sony, a Leica SL2 or something else.

3. If I want to use an M, I should get an appropriate lens to it like for example a Voigtlander or similar as the main lens.

4. If I want to have a complete different workflow and no real option paralysis I can get a Q.

I probably will go for Option 3 and get a 240 with a second hand lens. If I still feel like fiddling around I can add the adaptor and Visoflex. 

Thanks again for your input!

 

Edited September 2 by dreh23

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Chris W said:

For me it's a shame to embark on an M body purchase only to not use M mount lenses. M cameras are expensive, even the M240. It seems pointless.

There are better, often cheaper options, like the SL series, or Fujifilm.

I have L mount lenses, Pentax Takumar, Nikon F and I've used them all over the years with Sigma L mount and Leica L mount (CL, SL), never with my M body.

If rangefinder focussing on a compact body is the goal, then there are very affordable M mount Voigtlander lenses one can purchase.

 

The SL would be a better option, but the OP didn't ask about that and it would then rule out the future possibility of the OP enjoying M lenses on an M body. So with that in mind and to get 'up and running' an M body is still the best option if the OP wants to think later about dedicated M lenses. The Fuji cameras are crop sensor so they introduce further complications. But I think the days of buying an entirely new camera system to use a particular type of lens are long gone, the horse has bolted, and the door is has been left open. The world is now awash with brand new retro style lenses, and there are adapters for nearly everything, so do people with a drawer of Pentax or Nikon lenses really have to think of them as second best??

Personally I'd choose the M or SL and an M or L mount lens from the get-go because understanding how they are meant to work together is important in judging how well, or not, adapted lenses are working. But I don't think that should rule out the fun of re-invigorating some old favourite lenses at the same time.

[nykv]

15 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Just to clarify: if you only want to try your Pentax 50 f1.4 lens on a Leica M the Shoten PK-LM R50 adapter will couple it to the Leica M rangefinder so you can focus it by rangefinder. I tried it and it is quite accurate, but only for 50mm lenses.

+1 👍 for Shoten M-adapters 50mm! 

A) my Contarex 1.4/50 Planar

(there was nothing better in that range at that point in time, before the arrival of the 1.2/58 Canon Asph FD, but the latter has a different look wide open. In terms comparing those dated 50mm lenses' performance: sorry to say, forget the pre-asph Summilux versions!)

B )  my  Contax&Yashica 1.4/50 Planar

C) my Nikkor S-C Auto early non-Ai version 1.4/50

For each of them three I have their dedicated Shoten adapters, so they can be used on my M3 with film.

I have a Contax&Yashica body and a FM2 body in the bag, each with HP5. They see minimal use, while the M3 works with Acros 2, open apertures not needing fast film). 

For digital and mirrorless focusing there are less costly adaptors than my beloved M rangefinder coupled strictly 50mm  Shoten adaptors (get them while you can!), that can be used for all lenses regardless of their focal length = not only the 50mm like the dedicated Shoten, because they are not M-rangefinder coupled. 

 

[nykv]

1 hour ago, dreh23 said:

Thanks for all your input!

I believe I understand the M Camera better now. So from your comments I excerpt following:

1. Using an adaptor the M camera mostly is loosing the rangefinder functionality which is a core part of the value proposition of the M system. It is possible but your a mostly limited to a digital view, which can be OK as a compromise but is maybe not sufficient as a main solution.

2. If I want to use my Pentax lens I can go better (and cheaper) with alternative cameras bodies like the mentioned Sony, a Leica SL2 or something else.

3. If I want to use an M, I should get an appropriate lens to it like for example a Voigtlander or similar as the main lens.

4. If I want to have a complete different workflow and no real option paralysis I can get a Q.

I probably will go for Option 3 and get a 240 with a second hand lens. If I still feel like fiddling around I can add the adaptor and Visoflex. 

Thanks again for your input!

 

Don't spend while you have whatever "in storage". FIRST SELL what you don't need and when this is finished: start from there. Times ain't getting any easier.

Edited September 2 by nykv

[Chris W]

29 minutes ago, 250swb said:

 

Personally I'd choose the M or SL and an M or L mount lens from the get-go because understanding how they are meant to work together is important in judging how well, or not, adapted lenses are working.

Agreed.

[Chris W]

1 hour ago, dreh23 said:

 

I probably will go for Option 3 and get a 240 with a second hand lens.

^^ This ^^

[dreh23]

Conclusion:

After changing my mind X more times I purchased a used SL2-S with the 44 mm Sigma lens and I am looking forward to start in again - the camera is still in shipping. The idea to adapt any manual lenses is too attractive. I believe the SL-System gives me the flexibility to play around with old and new lenses with the price of having a bigger package then the M-System.

Thanks again for your attention!