no more uv/ir filters

[tobey bilek]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have been playing with my M8 that I have not used in years.  White balance has not been perfect and it seems there is no way to adjust red/green tint manually.  Auto , daylight, etc does not do it.  Then I found manual where you take a pic of a white card.  Better but not perfect.  What about if I take off the filter and redo manual.  So I did and took some picks around my home that I always use.  OUTSTANDING is all I can say.  I did of my neighbors home, light tan bricks, white trim, green grass and trees red white blue flag, and a bright blue cloudless sky in early afternoon. Forgot, the black shutters are pure black, not purple.  

I always wondered why they introduced a digital camera  with such poor colors and then came up with the filter solution.  There must have been a disconnect somewhere.  

How to.  Take off filter.  Be sure lens detection is set to on or off. No filter.  I used a white plastic 12" x 12"  with camera white bal set to manual.  Get the plastic to face sun an take a photo .  Just use auto exposure  and you get a grey card naturally which is fine. Instructions in manual if you have one.

The M8 will be seeing much more use now.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[erl]

So, how would that handle a shot with a mix of fabrics such as black cotton alongside a fabric of black synthetic cotton? 

[farnz]

On 8/23/2025 at 10:34 PM, tobey bilek said:

I always wondered why they introduced a digital camera  with such poor colors and then came up with the filter solution.  There must have been a disconnect somewhere.

The M8 was Leica's first digital M and the M's 27.8 mm register (the distance between the sensor and a lens's rear element) meant that this space was tiny compared to other cameras like SLRs so Leica's innovation was to make the IR filter over the sensor as thin as possible to take up less space.  They only found out (too late) when some beta testers noticed that black fabric was being recorded as magenta because IR rays (720+ nm) passing the IR filter were contaminating the pictures.

Leica's solution was for users to attach a UV/IR filter to the front of the lens and they supplied two UV/IR filters free of charge to people who bought an M8 and registered it.

Leica instructed Kodak to incorporate a thicker IR filter on the M9's sensor so the 'magenta effect' is less noticeable.

Pete.

[tobey bilek]

Seems to work on JPEG, not raw.  Why ??  

[tobey bilek]

On 8/23/2025 at 6:51 PM, erl said:

So, how would that handle a shot with a mix of fabrics such as black cotton alongside a fabric of black synthetic cotton? 

Tried black sweat shirt.  It turned a ugly red/brown.  Bad if you do weddings, but I do not.

Years ago I fixed this in photoshop.  Select color and desaturate.  Ok for one time, not for a wedding.  Make an action???

[tobey bilek]

More experimentation today.  Camera raw works  in addition to JPEG.  Use raw + jpeg and follow instructions at start.  Open in PS camera raw. At the top where it says profile three lines down, click.  Go to browse from drop down.  open camera metering, then click camera standard.  Magic happens  .

If you want fine adjustment,  click back,  then auto from edit line.

My M8 raw photos are now perfect, but retouch editing is now possible.

[adan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

18 hours ago, farnz said:

The M8 was Leica's first digital M and the M's 27.8 mm register (the distance between the sensor and a lens's rear element) meant that this space was tiny compared to other cameras like SLRs so Leica's innovation was to make the IR filter over the sensor as thin as possible to take up less space.

Actually, Leica's stated reason for the M8s' thin combined filter/cover-glass, at the time, was optical - to avoid the corner resolution degradation of a thicker layer of glass (refraction) using wide-angles. Which is still common with, e.g., some Sony cameras with thick filter packs.

6 hours ago, tobey bilek said:

Tried black sweat shirt.  It turned a ugly red/brown.  Bad if you do weddings, but I do not.

Years ago I fixed this in photoshop.  Select color and desaturate.  Ok for one time, not for a wedding.  Make an action???

The M8s' IR contamination affects many common colors other than blacks/grays: plant/tree/foliage greens will render too yellow or brown (plants reflect a LOT of IR - so much that they famously render as white in B&W IR photos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_photography ); faces/skin may render too red or pink; certain blue clothing dyes (especially "navy") render as purple; blue eyes turn gray; some dark "architectural greens" may turn brown or gray..

Just depends on the (bio)chemicals/pigments/dyes involved. Plant greens and oxidized-bronze greens don't reflect the same amount of "invisible" IR, even when they "look" the same to our IR-insensitive eyes. Blue eye or cloth pigments are more affected than Rayleigh-scattered blue skies. And so on.

There is no possible "magic bullet" for globally correcting all the colors IR affects. The only easy solution is to ignore the physics and "not care." Which is OK - I spent my first 6 months with the M8 filterless (as did many).

M8 picture, Dec. 2006, no filter. (Cosmetics and hair dyes notwithstanding - check the hands and fingers 😁 ).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[erl]

12 hours ago, tobey bilek said:

Tried black sweat shirt.  It turned a ugly red/brown.  Bad if you do weddings, but I do not.

Years ago I fixed this in photoshop.  Select color and desaturate.  Ok for one time, not for a wedding.  Make an action???

In my experience, the ONLY safe correction is to use IR cut filters. As Adan (Above) said, many colours can be affected by IR contamination.

When the M8 was released, I was shooting amongst other things, weddings and theatre. One terrible experience was where the groom wore a natural fibre dinner suit, but the best man and groomsmen wore cheaper hired synthetic dinner suits. The grooms suit reproduced fine, but the others all ended up in Magenta suits!

A lot of theatre venues have 'blacks' hanging in the wing areas. Frequently they are synthetic. Shooting shows on stage with IR sensitive sensors is a bad look. 

Since those days, all my Leica lenses have IR cut filters permanently fitted. I find it also beneficial when shooting landscapes, as some greens are also affected. Even when I shoot film or B&W, I leave the filters on. No harm done and serious accidents avoided.

[84bravo]

On 8/25/2025 at 6:56 PM, erl said:

Since those days, all my Leica lenses have IR cut filters permanently fitted. I find it also beneficial when shooting landscapes, as some greens are also affected. Even when I shoot film or B&W, I leave the filters on. No harm done and serious accidents avoided.

Do you use the IR cut filters with an M10 or M11 as well? I recall there was some benefit using them with the M240.

[erl]

7 hours ago, 84bravo said:

Do you use the IR cut filters with an M10 or M11 as well? I recall there was some benefit using them with the M240.

Yes! I only have the M10, no M11. Other cameras that use those lenses are:M6, M7, M8, M9, but the filters are never removed, unless for colour filters when shooting B&W film.

[lct]

Not a good idea to do without IR-cut filters, as this could affect your perception of colors. Example on foliage below.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[tommonego@gmail.com]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb lct:

Not a good idea to do without IR-cut filters, as this could affect your perception of colors. Example on foliage below.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Kind of funny seeing my flower bed on someone else's post. But I took the photos 5 or 6 years ago to illustrated this point, and I couldn't find where I stored the photos, just glad someone else had them accessible. 

[lct]

4 minutes ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

Kind of funny seeing my flower bed on someone else's post. But I took the photos 5 or 6 years ago to illustrated this point, and I couldn't find where I stored the photos, just glad someone else had them accessible. 

I did not remember sorry. This one is from me.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Viktor Long]

在2025年8月31日AM1点37分，lct说：

我不记得了，抱歉。这个是我的。

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

How terrible. I thought it was tolerable not to carry uvir. Until the people I photographed were all wearing purple clothes...