mpauliks Posted August 22 Share #21 Posted August 22 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 51 Minuten schrieb mpauliks: I think, this article is worth to mention here and the compare of AF speed on Leica bodies... https://petapixel.com/2021/06/11/leica-24-70mm-f-2-8-versus-sigma-24-70mm-f-2-8-is-there-a-difference/ "For instance, if for example, an autofocus task were to take 0.5 to one second to lock on to an object with the Leica lens, the Sigma lens would take 1.5 to 2.5 seconds in the identical situation. This behavior was consistent regardless of the environment or lighting." ... "On a Leica SL-2, this delay made using the Sigma version almost unusable when I attempted to shoot a moving subject wide open." This is remarkable! Isn´t it? Edited August 22 by mpauliks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22 Posted August 22 Hi mpauliks, Take a look here Leica vs Sigma -split-off thread. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 22 Share #22 Posted August 22 Well, I appreciate an aperture ring, the option to set OIS to panning and a stable EVF. Surely Leica could design extremely elegant switches and I did notice aperture rings on quite a few Leica lenses. As it is you are making a case for form over function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted August 22 Share #23 Posted August 22 vor 2 Minuten schrieb jaapv: Well, I appreciate an aperture ring, the option to set OIS to panning and a stable EVF. Surely Leica could design extremely elegant switches and I did notice aperture rings on quite a few Leica lenses. As it is you are making a case for form over function. Nice! Myself prefers AF speed. How about you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 22 Share #24 Posted August 22 8 minutes ago, mpauliks said: "For instance, if for example, an autofocus task were to take 0.5 to one second to lock on to an object with the Leica lens, the Sigma lens would take 1.5 to 2.5 seconds in the identical situation. This behavior was consistent regardless of the environment or lighting." ... "On a Leica SL-2, this delay made using the Sigma version almost unusable when I attempted to shoot a moving subject wide open." This is remarkable! Isn´t it? On my SL2S it is more than remarkable, it is bollocks unless the culprit was his camera. This is the fastest focusing L lens due to twin AF motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted August 22 Share #25 Posted August 22 Gerade eben schrieb jaapv: On my SL2S it is more than remarkable, it is bollocks unless the culprit was his camera. This is the fastest focusing L lens due to twin AF motors. Well, more than a sec difference according to the test is a lot IMO! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 22 Share #26 Posted August 22 From personal experience I can tell you that there is something slwrong in that test. But then, the SL2 is not renown for AFC head on. 1.5 seconds?? Seriously? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted August 22 Share #27 Posted August 22 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I do not know! Leica does not tell about the differences. Only those folks having both in direct compare can tell. It is a simple measurement. They should be able to, I think. Anyway, meanwhile myself is interested in SL3-S measurements. SL2-S is a fantastic cam, but SL3-S is next gen Edited August 22 by mpauliks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 22 Share #28 Posted August 22 18 minutes ago, jaapv said: As it is you are making a case for form over function. Again, for you. If features ruled, the M system would be written off as a silly high cost purchase, which is indeed a viewpoint many embrace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 22 Share #29 Posted August 22 Well, I don’t know of more functional rangefinder cameras. Do you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted August 22 Share #30 Posted August 22 vor 9 Minuten schrieb jaapv: Well, I don’t know of more functional rangefinder cameras. Do you? Pixii Ok, ok, i get my coat 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 22 Share #31 Posted August 22 45 minutes ago, jaapv said: Well, I don’t know of more functional rangefinder cameras. Do you? Which is why Sony and others sell a ton more cameras to people who want more features for less money. Those buyers don’t appreciate RF any more than I do video. I prefer manual focus even with my native SL lenses, don’t need an aperture ring, have no stabilization issues, prefer the design and build compared to other brands, enjoy my high trade-in values with select dealers, etc. Others will certainly agree with your assessment; and many will agree with mine. Unlike you, however, I’m not making judgments about value or buyer preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 22 Share #32 Posted August 22 And where did I judge buyers.? Value is a matter of simple numbers… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 22 Share #33 Posted August 22 10 minutes ago, jaapv said: And where did I judge buyers.? Value is a matter of simple numbers… By saying things like the only benefit is the hood; that many omissions are essential; by saying it’s form over function, etc. Basically implying it’s a purely status buy, and overpriced (saying the Sigma should cost more than Leica for what one gets… which is a value proposition). All of that works for your value assessment; not mine. For what I value, Leica remains the better option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 22 Share #34 Posted August 22 Not all Sigma lenses have switches, but those that do are an ergonomic nightmare (warning: exaggeration) when used on SL cameras. First, your camera mode (focusing and stabilization) switches depending on the lens that you have. Second, with some lenses that do not have switches (Sigma 28-70), you set the focusing and stabilization on the camera, and switching to a lens with switches has confused me several times. Third, some Sigmas have buttons that cannot be used with SL3. It just feels wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 23 Share #35 Posted August 23 12 minutes ago, SrMi said: Not all Sigma lenses have switches, but those that do are an ergonomic nightmare (warning: exaggeration) when used on SL cameras. First, your camera mode (focusing and stabilization) switches depending on the lens that you have. Second, with some lenses that do not have switches (Sigma 28-70), you set the focusing and stabilization on the camera, and switching to a lens with switches has confused me several times. Third, some Sigmas have buttons that cannot be used with SL3. It just feels wrong. And my understanding is that those lenses with an AF/MF clutch mechanism will not allow BBF on an SL body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 23 Share #36 Posted August 23 8 minutes ago, jaapv said: So having an opinion about an object judges its owner. Interesting idea. No critique allowed on the lens if I am buying it. The end of all reviews. You stated your opinion as a fact, as a truth for all. I understand your opinion, but you don’t accept mine as equally logical. For me and others, more features don’t equate to price or value. Form can also equate to functionality when it comes to practical use. You may not be judging me personally, but you surely are assessing my valuation on a different basis than I. Many people think a Fuji MF camera represents better value than Hasselblad MF…more buttons, more features, lighter, lower cost, etc. Others value Hasselblad’s elegant design, build, ergonomics, simple controls, menus and interface, lack of video, etc and, despite the higher cost, a better value proposition. Neither is right or wrong, nor universally true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted August 23 Share #37 Posted August 23 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Jeff S said: And my understanding is that those lenses with an AF/MF clutch mechanism will not allow BBF on an SL body. Yes. Those with a switch (Sigma) instead of a clutch (Panasonic) allow BBF. Edited August 23 by SrMi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23 Share #38 Posted August 23 19 minutes ago, Jeff S said: You stated your opinion as a fact, as a truth for all. I understand your opinion, but you don’t accept mine as equally logical. For me and others, more features don’t equate to price or value. Form can also equate to functionality when it comes to practical use. You may not be judging me personally, but you surely are assessing my valuation on a different basis than I. Many people think a Fuji MF camera represents better value than Hasselblad MF…more buttons, more features, lighter, lower cost, etc. Others value Hasselblad’s elegant design, build, ergonomics, simple controls, menus and interface, lack of video, etc and, despite the higher cost, a better value proposition. Neither is right or wrong, nor universally true. Well, things like the loss of function, the low-grade Sigma hood, etc. are facts and stated as such. At no point did I judge buyers or say anything dismissive about people who prefer to buy Leica for their own reasons. I understand your opinion equally, and it does not accept mine either. Such is the way things go in a discussion. And yes, each valuation is a personal thing. I stated mine, you are free to state yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 23 Share #39 Posted August 23 3 hours ago, jaapv said: As it is you are making a case for form over function. This is a reductive assessment of my statements, not nearly complete, as I’ve explained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23 Share #40 Posted August 23 Reduction to essentials Truly Leica 😜 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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