Considering a Monochrom Body - Looking for advice

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5 hours ago, tegel said:

As time moves on things progress. Just because it was done that way for decades, it doesn’t necessarily mean it is the best/correct/only way. If the technology if today was available then, who’s to say they would have not utilized it to achieve their vision? 

Digital photography doesn't have to be about the instant gratification of the process, pretty well all the worlds best images are still refined with the photographers skills and artistry in post processing (as they would have been in a darkroom), and if WYSIWYG is an element it's the starting point and not an end in itself.

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[fotografr]

21 hours ago, tegel said:

I did purchase an M10m partly due to these charts. The M11m was quite a bit more than I was willing to spend, and the other monochrom cameras didn’t seem to offer any advantage over the Zf (according to the charts anyway). I’m in the process of deciding if the M10m provides me with a significant advantage over my Zf for B&W. From the discussions here, I probably need to use both more in extreme high ISO situations. 

 

Your first hurdles will more likely be deciding if you like having a camera that only does b&w, and if rangefinder shooting is right for you. It isn't for everyone. Both cameras will probably satisfy you with high ISO results unless you're shooting by candle light. Then it's anybody's guess. 

[Dazzajl]

There are a lot of complicated issues being tossed in the pot with this thread still. Surely the answer to the question of considering a mono camera is "yes, absolutely do it". Stop wondering and get on with it. The experience seems to have a wide ranging affect on people from deep and meaningful to pointless and expensive. There is only one way to find out where you fit. If you don't buy a new M11M, you'll get all your money back if you don't like it and if you do buy a new M11M, money obviously isn't a restrictive issue.

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, Dazzajl said:

There are a lot of complicated issues being tossed in the pot with this thread still. Surely the answer to the question of considering a mono camera is "yes, absolutely do it". Stop wondering and get on with it. The experience seems to have a wide ranging affect on people from deep and meaningful to pointless and expensive. There is only one way to find out where you fit. If you don't buy a new M11M, you'll get all your money back if you don't like it and if you do buy a new M11M, money obviously isn't a restrictive issue.

He stated previously (post #116) that he has already purchased the M10M. Fortunately, it's not a high risk decision because that camera is still sought after and very easy to sell on the used market. 

Edited October 16 by fotografr

[mpauliks]

Did we cover the Bayer filter here already? A monochrom cam has a higher resolution as it does not have the Bayer filter?

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, mpauliks said:

Did we cover the Bayer filter here already? A monochrom cam has a higher resolution as it does not have the Bayer filter?

Not yet, as far as I've read, but it's true because a mono sensor doesn't have to do colour reconstruction, or demosaicing, to create the final image.

 

 

[mpauliks]

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Here we go with lab and expert tests for noise. Source is chip.de. First image M11, 2nd M246. Look at ISO 6400. To me it seems, 246 is superior to M11 in regard of noise.

 

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Edited Saturday at 09:11 AM by mpauliks

[jaapv]

Yes but you must consider the higher base ISO as there is no light loss by the Bayer filter. 

[fotografr]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes but you must consider the higher base ISO as there is no light loss by the Bayer filter. 

This appears to contradict that notion. 

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/87528/how-much-light-and-resolution-is-lost-to-color-filter-arrays

Edited Saturday at 12:37 PM by fotografr

[fotografr]

3 hours ago, mpauliks said:

Here we go with lab and expert tests for noise. Source is chip.de. First image M11, 2nd M246. Look at ISO 6400. To me it seems, 246 is superior to M11 in regard of noise.

 

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Is this the colour version M11 or the M11M?

[mpauliks]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb fotografr:

Is this the colour version M11 or the M11M?

M11 not M11M. Elsewise the compare would not make sense IMO.

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, mpauliks said:

M11 not M11M. Elsewise the compare would not make sense IMO.

Thanks. It's hard for me to interpret the charts because I don't speak German.

[mpauliks]

@fotografrI see. So, if I get them correct M11 has 6.4 Visual Noise at ISO 6400 and M246 has only 3.05, which is better. I guess ca. 1 EV but not sure please.

Gemini AI: "While there is no standard formula to directly convert a Visual Noise (VN) value into an Exposure Value (EV), the difference in noise performance between the Leica M11 and the Leica M246 can be expressed in practical photographic terms. Based on the provided values, the Leica M246 shows approximately a 1 EV, or "one-stop," advantage in noise performance over the M11 at ISO 6400."

Edited Saturday at 01:53 PM by mpauliks

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, fotografr said:

This appears to contradict that notion. 

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/87528/how-much-light-and-resolution-is-lost-to-color-filter-arrays

Not really, it compares to the human eye, which is a RGB device and not with a monochrome sensor. In essence they argue that the Bayer filter behaves like any other RGB situation which is more or less true. With a monochrome sensor you simply remove a colour filter and gain the filter factor, exactly like removing a colour filter from the lens. As for the resolution loss that is not due to the Bayer filter as such as every pixel is active so the luminance resolution will be identical to the sensor output. However further on  the interpolation step in the processing pipeline will use groups of pixels to create the colour which brings down the colour resolution. The net result is a combined resolution loss compared to the original sensor output. As a monochrome camera obviously skips the interpolation step it will transmit the full sensor resolution.