Looking for an M-Friendly “Character” lens at 50mm

[gtownby]

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My Leica APO Summicron-M 50mm is a stellar lens, but I’m looking for a “character” lens to complement it.

The hurdle on so many third-party lenses seems to be focus shift, which is not much of a concern on an SLR or mirrorless, but would be a major concern for me on a Leica M.

The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 “Heliar” looks intriguing (not the least of which is because of its price), but so many of the (generally favorable) reviews are written by people who put it on their Sony’s or Leica SLs, not Ms.

Two questions:

1. Is anyone shooting the 50mm Heliar f/1.5 on a Leica M?

2. For anyone shooting on the M format with a lens that has focus shift: Do you have a routine workaround?

Thanks, all.

[EltonPL]

re #1: I've no experience with the Voigtlander Heliar, but would suggest the SUMMICRON 50/2 V3 as an option to be seriously considered as a compliment to the APO.  I believe it to be a vastly under-rated model and available used in good or better condition for about the same as a new Heliar.  It has a softer, vintage, filmic (is that word) look and it will likely hold it's value.  Or the LLL Rigid 50/2 new for about the same.  None would be a bad choice.

re #2:  Stop down or use LV or EVF if your camera supports it.

LOTS of other choices as well, especially if your are willing to consider vintage glass.

- Elton

Edited Thursday at 10:03 PM by EltonPL

[evikne]

I can only answer #2: You can ask Leica or another repairer to calibrate for optimal focus one stop slower, e.g. an f/1.4 lens optimized to f/2.0. The slight front focus wide open will hardly be noticeable in real life, and beyond f/2.0, the increased depth of field will compensate for the back focusing.

[duoenboge]

I have several 50mm lenses. The one with the strongest character is the Zeiss C Sonnar 1.5/50mm. It's said to have focus shift, but I haven't noticed it yet. I don't really know what focus shift is, so maybe that's why it doesn't bother me. I choose the aperture, focus, usually with the optical viewfinder, and take the photo. It has a very distinctive look, almost the opposite of the Apo 50.

[lct]

1. Sorry no experience with the Heliar. Only Nokton 50/1.5 SC v2. Good character lens with no disturbing focus shift but too much CA at f/1.5. F/2 and above are OK. Good match with the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 if you like it.
2. My best work around with the Sonnar 50/1.5 is to use it in LV mode. In RF mode i would rather use a lens with little to no focus shift like Summilux 50/1.4 v3 or Summicron 50/2 v1 or v2. No experience with Summicron v3 but v4 and v5 have a bit of focus shift at about f/4. Could be worse though. Happy snaps

[EltonPL]

+1 On the Sonnar option. . . but alas, so many choices!

 

[FrozenInTime]

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The main thread on the Heliar f/1.5 starts with examples here https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323521-rumor-new-heliar-classic-50mm-f15-vm/page/4/#comments

I don't recall seeing focus shift between f/1.5 and f/2, and that the image cleans up quickly.

An abundance of character at f/1.5. 

[Siriusone59]

I've a few 50mm lens and my best character lens is the Voigtlander 50mm 3.5 heliar.  It reminds me of the of the earlier lenses from the 50's and 60's when used wide open but quite sharp when stopped down.  It's small and fairly inexpensive considering its quality.  It is a bit different because there are no clicks for the f-stop but it's worth looking into for something different from the current offerings.

[drew.saunders]

I can’t afford one, but the Omnar Bertele 50/2 looks like it might suit your needs: 

 

 

[gtownby]

28 minutes ago, drew.saunders said:

I can’t afford one, but the Omnar Bertele 50/2 looks like it might suit your needs: 

 

 

Drew - Yes - The Omnar Bertele! I've pored over that video several times, and indeed, if they've solved the focus shift problem with a Sonnar formula, what a contribution to the niche world of "modern-vintage."  But the almost-a-Leica price has given me pause for a specialty lens. (Funny what retirement will do to spending habits.)

[gtownby]

This forum is just wonderful. You've all given me some good stuff to research, including the various pre-ASPH versions of the Summilux 50. 

Thanks SO much.

[raizans]

Light Lens Lab has a lot of options, but the new Z21 looks fun.

[IkarusJohn]

I went on a similar journey (resulting in 4, yes 4!) 50mm lenses.

At one point, I was intrigued by the f/1 Noctilux, but having the 0.95 version that seemed a step too far.  I settled on a 50 Summitar f/2, from 1948.  It’s coated and it is the 10 aperture version, making the bokeh balls round.  Wide open, it has the wild swirly bokeh of the f/1 Noctilux almost to seasick levels, but then calms down when you stop it down.  It’s a Leica Thread Mount, so you need one of those wafer thin Voigtlander adapters.

Another alternative is the 50 Summicron f/1.5 also in thread mount.  Both these lenses were made into the 1950s, then phased out with the move the M mount.

[LocalHero1953]

Elmar 5cm f/3.5 in LTM mount + LTM/M adapter. 
THE classic. Readily available for low prices.

I had the Zeiss ZM C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 for a while. It had focus shift, and mine was calibrated at f/2. I used it on the M240. 
You don't say which camera you want to use it on, but assuming it has liveview, you can check the focus shift and understand how it behaves. Once I had done this this, then, when just using the rangefinder, I got in the habit of leaning forward or back a bit for shots that were risky (e.g. wide open, close range).

I have the Bertele on order🙂.

Edited yesterday at 07:48 AM by LocalHero1953

[Ecar]

39 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Another alternative is the 50 Summicron f/1.5 also in thread mount.  Both these lenses were made into the 1950s, then phased out with the move the M mount.

You meant Summarit 50/1.5, I guess. Made in both LTM and, indeed, later on in M mount. Excellent "character" choice if it *has* to be a fast Leica lens, although some find it too extreme wide open. Increasingly hard to find with coatings in good condition.

[Ecar]

16 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I had the Zeiss ZM C Sonnar 50mm f/1.5 for a while. It had focus shift, and mine was calibrated at f/2. I used it on the M240. 
You don't say which camera you want to use it on, but assuming it has liveview, you can check the focus shift and understand how it behaves. Once I had done this this, then, when just using the rangefinder, I got in the habit of leaning forward or back a bit for shots that were risky (e.g. wide open, close range).

+1. It doesn't take long to build muscle memory and achieve consistently accurate focus this way. If calibrated for f/2, you just need to "lean in" a few cm when using the lens wide open. Focus shift is negligible @ f/2.8, although you may want to "lean out" a tad, and pretty much gone @ f/4.

[Ecar]

11 hours ago, gtownby said:

Two questions:

1. Is anyone shooting the 50mm Heliar f/1.5 on a Leica M?

2. For anyone shooting on the M format with a lens that has focus shift: Do you have a routine workaround?

1. Yes, but very occasionally. Gorgeous, well-built lens. I prefer its rendering in B&W, but that's a personal thing that usually applies to most vintage (or modern 'imperfect') lenses I own - possibly something to do with their flaws being subconsciously reminiscent of the earlier days of photography. I'd still pick a Sonnar over a Heliar, though...

2. See previous post.

[Stef63]

Too many 50s in the drawer… Most of them are not RF-coupled, so I rely on the Visoflex — which also means focus shift isn’t really an issue.

Among non-Leica lenses, two of my absolute favorites are:

• Pentax Takumar 50mm f/1.4 (8-element) – smooth rendering, great color, and that vintage glow wide open.
• Canon FD 55mm f/1.2 SSC Aspherical – tons of character and a very unique look, especially in low light.

Not a direct answer to your question, but if you’re looking for a “character” 50mm, these might just give you what you’re after.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Ecar said:

You meant Summarit 50/1.5, I guess. Made in both LTM and, indeed, later on in M mount. Excellent "character" choice if it *has* to be a fast Leica lens, although some find it too extreme wide open. Increasingly hard to find with coatings in good condition.

Yes, typo!  Thank you for correcting it.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[espelt]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb gtownby:

I’m looking for a “character” lens to complement it

Check out these old gems:

- Summar

- Summarit

- Elmar

They can all be adapted and can deliver their own wonderful results. And they won't ruin your bank balance too much...