Buying my first Leica

[goks]

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Hi everyone! I'm trying to get my first Leica, but I'm not sure how to approach it. I want it to be an M, and I was going to go with the M11, but reading about all the freezing issues has made me worried, especially since I will probably buy it used, so I wouldn’t have the chance to get it checked at a Leica store. Another one I was considering is the M10-R, but it's really hard to find these days. I wanted to ask if you have any recommendations or perhaps a strategy for choosing one's first Leica. Should I go with a cheaper body and a better lens, or vice versa?

 

Thank you, I really appraicfte your help!

Edited June 23 by goks

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[pedaes]

1 hour ago, goks said:

I wouldn’t have the chance to get it checked at a Leica store. 

Welcome to the Forum.

I would only buy from a Leica dealer which would then have a warranty. Don't worry about buying an M11 as  the vast majority of what you might have read  is out of date with latest FW. 

Good luck and enjoy the search!

[goks]

Thank you @pedaes! Do you have any opinion on this question " Should I go with a cheaper body and a better lens, or vice versa?"

 

Thank you!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, goks said:

Thank you @pedaes! Do you have any opinion on this question " Should I go with a cheaper body and a better lens, or vice versa?"

 

Thank you!

The M11 family is very stable now. People still post with the occasional issue, but they are mainly one-off problems. I can't remember reading about a "freezing" problem for some time. I haven't owned an M10 or earlier, and I'm sure they are great, but they are older and have lower resolution sensors and less modern features such as USB-C charging. Only you can decide what is important to you, but I wouldn't let the M11 perceived issues influence you.

For second hand, Leica dealers are good, but, depending where you live, MPB are also very good. They offer a 12 month warranty and I have returned an item under the warranty with no issue.

I would go with an M11 body and a Leica lens. If you go for a third party lens then you will always be wondering what you're missing out on. Depending on how much you have to spend I would go for a 35mm or 50mm, either Summicron or Summilux. I have a 50mm Summicron and a 35mm Summilux and they're both great, although the Summicron is considerably cheaper.

 

[charlesphoto99]

7 minutes ago, goks said:

Thank you @pedaes! Do you have any opinion on this question " Should I go with a cheaper body and a better lens, or vice versa?"

 

Thank you!

Yes, better lens. A Leica lens can be used from generation to generation of M bodies, and typically holds resale value best. You might even consider starting with an M10 or M240 to see if you even like the way an M works. I know plenty of photographers who come from dslr or mirrorless who just can't get the hang of the rangefinder. The M12 and/or M-EVF will be out soon enough, and then used M11 prices will come down even more and you can always trade up/across with an M10 if you enjoy the M way of working. 

[pedaes]

11 minutes ago, goks said:

" Should I go with a cheaper body and a better lens, or vice versa?

Any digital M from M(240) will serve you well, but you need to be specific on lens. Don't forget there are excellent Voigtlander lenses and their new 28mm f2 will be excellent ..

[goks]

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Thank you all! Is there a place I can see and compare the identical photos taken with different bodies to see if there an actual difference? I'm thinking it may be smart to get an M8 or M9 with an excellent lens and wait for the M12 to upgrade. Or would you avoid M8 and 9 all together? I heard their sensors may start not working as they age, but I'm not sure.

[pedaes]

1 minute ago, goks said:

M8 and 9

M11 in first post to M8 now is quite a leap! Although M8 has a 'cropped' sensor it is probably better bet as you would need to be confident M9 had second generation replacement sensor or showed no signs of sensor 'corrosion'. Also remember neither of these cameras have Live View.

There are 100's of images from all cameras on the Forum - start with 'Images from...' threads, but any difference you can see will be minimal and probably down to pp anyway.

[lct]

I would not spend too much to begin with. An M240 and a Voigtlander lens could be a good start. You will have plenty of time to decide if and how you intend to upgrade afterwards. M240 and M11 user speaking. Happy snaps 🙂

[goks]

8 minutes ago, pedaes said:

M11 in first post to M8 now is quite a leap!

Haha yes, folks here made me realize that I actually don't want an M11 and want to wait for m12 instead, while exploring the M System.

9 minutes ago, lct said:

I would not spend too much to begin with. An M240 and a Voigtlander lens could be a good start. You will have plenty of time to decide if and how you intend to upgrade afterwards. M240 and M11 user speaking. Happy snaps 🙂

thank you! is there a specific combo would you recommend? Also what was the reason you decided to keep M240? Are the photos look more film-like due to the sensor difference, or is it just a myth?

 

Lastly, any thoughts on Typ 262?

[pgh]

I would buy a proper used summicron 35mm or 50mm personally, and an M240 or M10 if you can afford it. I prefer the M10 for various reasons but they are both plenty good and most photographers who upgrade are not necessarily maximizing whatever the newest shit offers. M9 I guess, if you can verify the sensor issue has been fixed. I personally don’t find the colors to be the magic some people claim (it is different, yes…better…that’s another question). Also, forget film like. These are digital cameras. If you’re trying to make it something it’s not you won’t be happy. If you want film like images you get a film camera and scan the film (I am assuming you are referring to digital photos that are scans of film negatives - not actual prints or negatives). 

The voigtlander lenses are quite good, I’ve personally just don’t prefer them and since I use few lenses I get the ones that I prefer. 

Buy a body on one of those forums full of wealthy people who get bored with the latest stuff rather quickly - then you get a camera that’s maybe been used for 1 or 2000 clicks and 50% off retail. MPB and KEH also are pretty safe to try things out with having solid enough return policies for used gear. You pay a bit more for it, but sometimes it’s worth it.

I’ve only purchased a Leica from a dealer once, and let’s just say I didn’t enjoy it. It’s possibly fine if you’ve got plenty of cash but I find aggressive upselling to be quite a pet peeve…

I’ve (never again) purchased new Leicas a few times. 3 to be exact. All 3 had to go back to Leica to get sorted out for reasons that varied in severity. Used, I have a much better track record of the camera working as it should. 

Edited June 23 by pgh

[spydrxx]

Are you coming from a film camera or a digital one (or none at all)? If digital, it is pretty easy to compare features and functions. If you're coming from film, I strongly encourage you to visit a Leica dealer and try out what they have to offer among the models, as (IMHO) digital is another beast altogether. Secondly re lenses...that's a hard one to answer, as it depends on what you primarily intend to shoot, and whether you like classical or more  modern renditions. Then the issue becomes...Leica glass or that of another manufacturer. I've used both, on both film and digital, modern rendering and classical, typically 35mm-90mm, although occasionally I put on 135-400 tele lenses for wildlife a,d 21-28mm for certain architecture photography. The old standby for many photographers is a 50mm Summicron, which is a good all round lens, although I spent many years mastering a 35mm Summaron in lieu of the 50mm. Whatever you decide...don't get caught up in GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) for a year or so. Some people do and never really master the characteristics of any one lens and waste their time and $ on additional lenses. Also, not everybody is comfortable with a rangefinder camera.

In any case best of luck in your quest.

[pedaes]

9 minutes ago, pgh said:

I would

This post is a lot about you and raising issues the OP didn't!

[pgh]

5 minutes ago, pedaes said:

This post is a lot about you and raising issues the OP didn't!

I raised issues that I felt relevant to the OP. Given that they put a prompt on the internet asking for such thoughts and the reasoning behind them. 

Would you prefer I said “it is thought by some” rather than “I think?” 

[goks]

8 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

Are you coming from a film camera or a digital one (or none at all)?

Digital DSLR, never tried rangefinder but I want to get into it and that's why I thought of getting a camera from Leica M system. For your question about the lenses, I like to create more classical photos rather than modern renditions. I like to explore portrait as well but mainly interested in nature and street photograhy as I do photography as a hobby and form of meditation.

I wonder if this answer changes the advice people have given me in this thread

[JNK100]

I would suggest an M262 or an M10 for a first M. However the M11 is a bit cheaper now and is a better camera. The 262 is a 240 without video or live-view I believe.

Also, I would suggest a Leica lens like a 'Lux or a 'Cron ideally and their resale will be better too.

I strongly suggest buying from a dealer, especially for the body and ideally from Leica themselves. Some of their bodies have a two year warranty if Wetzlar have checked them over.

Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, pgh said:

raised issues that I felt relevant

 

27 minutes ago, pgh said:

I’ve personally just don’t prefer them and since I use few lenses I get the ones that I prefer. 

Good to know.

[Ko.Fe.]

As usual for camera - from known dealer and with warranty. 

Lens, since it has no electronics, you don't need to go for most expensive or always with warranty lens. Just get from reputable place. 

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[pgk]

1 hour ago, goks said:

Or would you avoid M8 and 9 all together? I heard their sensors may start not working as they age, but I'm not sure.

I'm still using an M9 as my preferred everyday camera, but .....

They aren't cheap if you get a good one (replaced sensor and in good condition) so you may as well buy a later camera as these will not be dramatically more costly. For your first M it is probably worth spending as much as you are prepared to and as little as you have to. This will enable you to decide if you like using such cameras. If you buy at reasonable cost you are unlikelt to lose a great deal on one so you can look on the devaluaton as being the cost of trying out and learning an M camera.

[lct]

50 minutes ago, goks said:

Haha yes, folks here made me realize that I actually don't want an M11 and want to wait for m12 instead, while exploring the M System.

thank you! is there a specific combo would you recommend? Also what was the reason you decided to keep M240? Are the photos look more film-like due to the sensor difference, or is it just a myth?

 

Lastly, any thoughts on Typ 262?

I have no experience with the M262 sorry. I kept the M240 as backup but it has no film-like rendition. Was the first CMOS digital M.  About lenses, depends on the focal length you prefer. New comers to M cameras favour often 35mm lenses. A very good and not too expensive lens could then be the Nokton 35/1.5. Compact, well made, 0.5m MFD, its rendition is not far from another favorite of mine, the Summilux 35/1.4 asph pre-FLE. I pen coded mine the same way as the latter.