6-bit coded "vintage" lens - what data to see in Adobe Photoshop?

[Jon Warwick]

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hi, i have a v3 50mm Summicron, so 1960/70s lens, which is now 6-bit coded.

(1) In Adobe Capture Raw when processing the DNG, under Use Profile Corrections, both default and auto show "None". Is that correct? I'm asking because I would have assumed it would have shown Summicron-M 50mm f2 immediately, but nothing shows unless i manually select it by searching for the lens under custom.  This is different to what happens with any of my contemporary lenses (like the v5 50mm, or 75mm Summarit), where the lens data would show up automatically in Use Profile Corrections!

(2) Once i have processed the DNG in ACR above, and open it into the main Photoshop for more editing, if i go into File, then File Info, it shows "Summicron 1:2/50 Leitz" regardless.

Any thoughts on whether the 6-bit is doing its job properly?

 

Edited June 21 by Jon Warwick

[Jean-Michel]

As far as I know, in CameraRaw or LR (I use LR) there are only two profiles for 50 mm Summicrons: one for the Apo Summicron, and one for all the other Summicrons.

The 6-bit info tells you what lens you are using; that does not mean that there is necessarily a lens profile in CameraRaw or LR.  

The correction applied by the lens profile for the 50 mm Summicron (non APO) is pretty much invisible. I always apply it, but it really does not make any difference . 

[Jon Warwick]

50 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

You must mean Adobe Camera Raw?

Sorry, yes. Adobe Camera Raw, correct.

Edited June 21 by Jon Warwick

[Jon Warwick]

29 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

As far as I know, in CameraRaw or LR (I use LR) there are only two profiles for 50 mm Summicrons: one for the Apo Summicron, and one for all the other Summicrons.

 

Yes, i think that's right for the 50 Summicrons, looking at what is under the custom choices.

In that sense, I'm still thinking shouldn't the Leica-M SUMMICRON 50 f2 have been the default or auto with a 6-bit coded vintage lens (v3 50mm here)?

Perhaps it's a moot point, given i always turn off that setting so no lens adjustment is selected in ACR, but odd that the data is missing by defaulting to "none"?

Edited June 21 by Jon Warwick

[lct]

Has your lens been 6-bit coded by Leica or otherwise? Just to understand.

[Jon Warwick]

46 minutes ago, lct said:

Has your lens been 6-bit coded by Leica or otherwise? Just to understand.

Yes, by Leica 

[Vanillasludge]

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2 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Yes, i think that's right for the 50 Summicrons, looking at what is under the custom choices.

In that sense, I'm still thinking shouldn't the Leica-M SUMMICRON 50 f2 have been the default or auto with a 6-bit coded vintage lens (v3 50mm here)?

Perhaps it's a moot point, given i always turn off that setting so no lens adjustment is selected in ACR, but odd that the data is missing by defaulting to "

Even though the lens data is baked into the raw file, Lightroom generally requires manually selecting “enable profile correction” to get the full corrections applied.   This is so with both my Nikon D750 and Leica files.  

As to why, that’s another Adobe mystery   

The importance of lens coding or correct selection of lens profiles on Leica M cameras is primarily to correct for edge corner shifts and to bring vignette back to what Leica feels represents the lenses natural performance on film.

Since Leica lenses typically don’t require any major corrections otherwise I rarely select the profile  

As long as your camera is recognizing the lens correctly your images will be fine.

Best wishes 

 

[Jon Warwick]

42 minutes ago, Vanillasludge said:

Even though the lens data is baked into the raw file, Lightroom generally requires manually selecting “enable profile correction” to get the full corrections applied.  

……

Since Leica lenses typically don’t require any major corrections otherwise I rarely select the profile  

As long as your camera is recognizing the lens correctly your images will be fine.

 

 

Thanks for your reply. And yes, I agree, with good M lenses the corrections when applied can be minor. Something is being recognised, I think, ie in Adobe Bridge and after processing in DNG, the data is showing a Leitz 50mm f2. That sounds fine. The mystery to me is why no default or auto corrections are made in ACR…… even AFTER i have clicked on “use profile corrections” in ACR. It says that ACR is unable to locate a matching lens profile automatically, which is odd given the 6-bit coding on this 50mm v3, and unlike anything I see for my other 6-bit lenses that are new enough to have not had 6-bit added retroactively. 

Edited June 21 by Jon Warwick

[lct]

3 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Sorry, yes. Adobe Camera Raw, correct.

OK so what code is painted on the flange of the lens? 010111?

[Jon Warwick]

10 hours ago, lct said:

OK so what code is painted on the flange of the lens? 010111?

Hi, I will need to check when I’m back from a trip. In the interim, I thought this was an interesting read here, given it discussed the 50mm v3 11817. 

 

Edited June 22 by Jon Warwick

[lct]

Yes the Summicron 50/2 v3 is listed in the Leica coding list. Reason why i wanted to know how your copy has been coded. All i can say is the 010111 code does work since i pen coded one of my LTM lenses this way. The lens ID in exif data of DNG files is then "Summicron 1:2/50 Leitz". You should retrieve it in your own DNG files if your lens has been coded this way.

Edited June 22 by lct

[lct]

Flange of a coded Summicron 50/2 v3:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited June 22 by lct

[Jean-Michel]

The coding of the M lenses is informative but it does not trigger an automatic lens profile correction in ACR or LR. None of my coded lenses (current versions of the 35 and 50 Summicron and Macro-Elmar) do so. 

If a built-in lens profile is provided to ACR or LR that is shown, in LR, in the Lens Correction panel as "Built-in Lens Profile Applied". 

You can create a preset in import to apply various parameters for different cameras. Go to LR Preferences Presets.

You can create a User Preset which could include selecting Lens Profile correction.

[Jon Warwick]

3 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

The coding of the M lenses is informative but it does not trigger an automatic lens profile correction in ACR or LR. None of my coded lenses (current versions of the 35 and 50 Summicron and Macro-Elmar) do so. 

If a built-in lens profile is provided to ACR or LR that is shown, in LR, in the Lens Correction panel as "Built-in Lens Profile Applied". 

 

That’s interesting, thanks. Maybe the v3 (11817) never made it into the list in ACR or LR. Interestingly, if one goes into the menu on the M11(M), it seems Leica itself splits the manual M lens choice into v3 and v4/v5 as 2 separate selections, I guess presumably due to their different designs. Perhaps just the second of those (v4/v5) was selected for Adobe. 

9 hours ago, lct said:

The lens ID in exif data of DNG files is then "Summicron 1:2/50 Leitz"

Yes, that’s what I see indeed under the exif data (what was missing was a default or automatic profile correction in ACR).

Not 100% confirmed, but I think maybe we have got to the bottom of what’s going on. Thanks to all for your help!