Talk me out of, or into, switching back to Leica?

[Jeff-w]

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TLDR: I find my Panny S5ii to be fussy, and I used to love my Leica M10 before selling it. If I replace my S5ii with a used Leica SL2, will I be happy? 

Hello! Hobby photographer, not a professional, here; primarily shooting people, events, music, band promo stuff, and family memories. I switched systems about six months ago from M to SL, selling my Leica M10 and three lenses and buying a Panasonic S5ii with a few lenses (plus several thousand additional dollars newly in my bank account). I have no complaints on image quality from either system. My decision to sell the M10 was based on the anxiety that came with carrying it with me and knowing it would cost me more than ten thousand dollars to replace the camera and lens if something happened to them. However, there are some things I regret a lot about selling the M10. Aside from size (I do miss the portability of the M10 and its tiny lenses), my biggest gripe with the S5ii is the user experience; its startup is really slow if it's been off for more than a half hour or so, I'm constantly bumping dials and settings on the screen, it is so blasted fussy. Eventually I figured out how to deactivate the thumb dial and the touchscreen, but I STILL find the focus point in one of the corners sometimes, and it bugs me that the screen is loose and wiggles around and the thin plastic card slot door on the grip is constantly jiggling under my hand.

The thing I miss most about my M10 is that I could leave it turned on 24/7. I literally NEVER touched the power switch. It would dutifully go to sleep after ten minutes or so, and it would wake up instantly when I put my finger on the shutter button. I never bumped or changed anything by accident, and it didn't drain the battery noticeably, it was just always on, hanging from my shoulder, ready to shoot. Leaving the S5ii on, by contrast, is not feasible; it doesn't seem to go to sleep if I'm carrying it over my shoulder, all the settings will be changed the next time I reach for it, it'll be hot, and it'll have an empty battery. 

Here's my question: Would the Leica SL2 solve my problems? Would I be able to just leave it on, to go to sleep on its own, hanging from my shoulder, like the M10, with a rapid wake-up when needed? I haven't found any info in reviews about how sleep and wakeup work on the Leica SL cameras, but given that the on/off switch is on the left side of the camera I am wondering if it is also good to just leave it in the "on" position? I can see from the reviews that the SL2 user interface is much more to my liking, and the build quality is nice enough, I can buy a used Leica SL2 now for a thousand dollars less than a new Panny S1Rii, and yes I know that the SL2's autofocus will not be as good but I can live with that. I shoot a little bit of video occasionally, and I am not a filmmaker of any sort, I'm happy to set the focus before hitting record and just leave it there. In terms of lenses, 99% of the time I'm happy with two primes: 50mm and a 28mm (or 24mm now, I guess, for some reason we got rid of the 28mm focal length in the past decade?) I'm happy with my L-mount lenses, aside from the bulky size of them. 

Do you think replacing my Panasonic S5ii with a Leica SL2 will make me happy, or am I in for mostly more of the same annoyances? Maybe I should just stop complaining, use the S5ii that I have, and stop expecting it to be something that it's not? 

[LD_50]

You should try before you buy. 

With all the SL cameras, I have power settings in place to put them to sleep after some time. That said I also turn them off to conserve battery life. 

I don't see an SL2 replacing an M unless you shoot M lenses on it. 

If you only need 50mm and 28mm you might try the Q3. It will be closer in size to an M and have some of the simplified UI of the SL series. 

[Photoworks]

I have 2 SL2s that I have been shooting for years, it is a solid camera, I have an SL3 now too and it is not all that better.

I think you would like the SL2 very much, an improved menu that is simple and fast, EVF is higher res than Panny S5II.

PS, I know where you are coming from, I got an S1RII a few months back and I'm still stumbling around the menu.

[jaapv]

Well, as I have set my S5 cameras to behave close to analog ones, I actually prefer their interface to my SLs. But we all have our preferences. 
I can only echo the advice to borrow or rent an SL camera before you switch. 
I find Leica’s menus chaotic. 
maybe you should have a look at how you have set up the camera. My system: 

For each standard situation, run down the menu, which unlike Leica is divided into logical chapters and save as a user profile  Now you only have to turn the righthand wheel and maybe push one button to set the camera to the desired mode and can use the lefthand wheel and a couple of top plate buttons to tweak  You hardly ever have to delve into the menu or use any other buttons and it feels close to an analog camera  

 

[la1402]

2 hours ago, Jeff-w said:

Maybe I should just stop complaining, use the S5ii that I have, and stop expecting it to be something that it's not? 

Yes.

 

Every camera has its annoyances, and the SL2 is not short of them. And especially power consumption is one of this systems weaknesses.

[pgh]

I have an SL2 and an M10. I am professional but also an amateur and these days more of my pictures spent doing projects that are off the job but whether on or off the cameras are usually pretty much the same.

I rarely use my SL2 for a variety of reasons. It's a very good camera and I'd prefer it over the Panasonic, but like I said I have an M10.

I still use my M10 most days after nearly 8 years of ownership. As you'd noted, it's a great camera. 

Maybe a stupid question but why not just get insurance. It's not like losing an SL2 and a lens is going to be that much less than if the same thing happened with an M10. 

I honestly can't imagine not using a camera because of what it cost, and you're talking to someone who for the majority of his life carried a camera that could be sold on the used market for more than the car he showed up in. A lost camera that was not insured would have been devastating for me. Worse would have been not using them out of fear. 

[Jeff-w]

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22 minutes ago, pgh said:

. 

Maybe a stupid question but why not just get insurance. It's not like losing an SL2 and a lens is going to be that much less than if the same thing happened with an M10. 

Thanks for the thoughts yeah maybe i shouldn’t have sold the m10, but as for the financial side of it recently the M10 prices have been going up and Sl2 prices going down; a used M10 is well over $5000 and you can get a used SL2 for under $2500. But come to think of it maybe that price difference tells me everything i need to know…
 

insurance is an interesting idea! I worry that they would avoid paying out under most circumstances but maybe there’s an actually trustworthy insurance company out there if such a thing exists

[pgh]

There is insurance that exists specifically for photographers. They cover basically everything. This isn’t a rider on your home/renters insurance but an entirely different policy. Either way, I still can’t imagine a fear of losing the best tool for a purpose precluding the actual use of it. 

m10s are easy enough to find for 4k on the used market if buying from individuals and not shops. If you’ve got north of 5k you get an m10mono (I got my m10 mono for less even) or an m10R. 
 

sl2 is a fine thing. But it’s still mirrorless. You’re still looking at a screen. Life has enough of that. I am satisfied enough with it as a modern digi cam/tool and never nearly as happy to use it as an m10. 

Edited June 14 by pgh

[jaapv]

BTW the battery annoyance is easily resolved by slipping a spare battery into your pocket. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Battery use is very personal, but I use an SL2 and don't really find the battery much of an issue. I rarely need an extra, but when I do I have one. I do use it professionally, but not typically in long videos or in events or other circumstances that burn through a lot of pictures. If you do, then it is another story. I do, however, carry it on my shoulder on many hikes or photo walks in the highlands here, and it does go to sleep. Still, I tend to just be in the habit of turning it off, as it has such a great tactile and sure on/off switch. It is a bummer they got rid of it, as it was so satisfying, particularly in the winter with gloves.

I agree with pgh though, insurance would be a good plan anyway, particularly if you feel like you wouldn't be able to replace it if something would happen. If you prefer the M10 workflow, you should probably just buy it back.

[erl]

Go for another M10 along with its simple, fuss free usability. Go for insurance for your peace of mind. Use an Insurance Broker who is then bound to represent your interests, not the Insurance Company.

Spend the rest of the day . . . resting comfortably. 👌

[Chris W]

I have an M10 and an SL2-S. The SL is practical, I enjoy using the M more.

In 35 years of traveling with cameras I've never had an incident (lost, stolen or damaged) even walking rougher parts of town. I had an M6 with lenses for a few years and have recently traveled with an M240, M10 and Hasselblad X1D2. No issues.

With the smaller viewfinder and manual focus only, the M can be tricky for events and live music.

[jankap]

Ebay lists (with the sold tab) Leica M10 for 4000 to 5000 Euros.

I have never thought of an insurance. Long ago I have asked at the bank about insurances, the employee asked me if I plan to lose the camera. That finished the idea.

A camera is a technical product, like a watch, a smartphone or my purse. I keep an eye on them. My purse is once stolen out of my pocket, but there was only some money in it. I carry my passport on my body and my camera with 2-3 Leica lenses in a backpack. Of course, the backpack does not carry the text "Leica inside" on it.

If you only use 28 to 75 mm lenses and use LR/PS, a Leica Q is not a bad idea.

I am not a rangefinder fan, looking through the lens is my world.😀

Edited June 15 by jankap

[erl]

Fear is a great catalyst to cause an event to happen. Many of my peers said to stop climbing ladders, at my age, especially my old rickety wooden one. I agreed and so went out and bought a beaut aluminum one. So much better. I have no fear of falling and if I did , I would stop.

Fear of losing a camera or having it stolen is a great way to attract would be robbers. Animals and to a lesser extent, humans can smell fear. If you worry about your camera you are better off not taking it! Then probably you are worried about travelling to some extent also. So don't! Dumb reaction.

Go travelling, take your best camera (that's what it is really for) and insure it, and relax into a great time. Life is too short to spend it worrying.

Go, go go, do, do do!!

[jankap]

14 minutes ago, erl said:

Fear is a great catalyst to cause an event to happen. Many of my peers said to stop climbing ladders, at my age, especially my old rickety wooden one. I agreed and so went out and bought a beaut aluminum one. So much better. I have no fear of falling and if I did , I would stop.

Fear of losing a camera or having it stolen is a great way to attract would be robbers. Animals and to a lesser extent, humans can smell fear. I fyou worry about your camera you are better off not taking it! Then probably you are worried about travelling to some extent also. So don't! Dumb reaction.

Go travelling, take your best camera (that's what it is really for) and insure it, and relax into a great time. Life is too short to spend it worrying.

Go, go go, do, do do!!

Very good reaction.

Going and doing is the best way to keep Mr. Alzheimer on distance too.

Edited June 15 by jankap

[jaapv]

I must have posted this before as it happened years ago. Walking out of our hotel in Nairobi ( also colloquially known as Nairobbery) we met a group of young lads and we said “hello, how are you” like we usually do and we had a friendly “where are you from” type of conversation. A clearly fearful British couple who left the hotel ten minutes later were robbed by the same group.  I had an M240 hanging from my shoulder. 

[jankap]

They had the smell: take us.

Benny Rebel told on one of his tours in Tanzania: make yourself large if you come near a lion. A lion that licks his lips already.

The same point with dogs, my knowledge.  Do not signal being a potential victim.

Edited June 15 by jankap

[wjdrijfhout]

I only turned off the SL2 at the end of the day. For the rest I relied on sleep mode settings. When grabbing the camera from the bag, press the shutter button and camera is ready by the time you’ve got it in front of your eye. While I always carry a spare battery, I seldomly needed it, only after intens shooting. Make sure you keep the Bluetooth off, as this consumes a lot of energy, also in sleep mode. 

[jaapv]

I don't even turn it off whe

12 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I have 2 SL2s that I have been shooting for years, it is a solid camera, I have an SL3 now too and it is not all that better.

I think you would like the SL2 very much, an improved menu that is simple and fast, EVF is higher res than Panny S5II.

PS, I know where you are coming from, I got an S1RII a few months back and I'm still stumbling around the menu.

That. is because the menu is meant to configure the camera, not to operate it, the menu is meant to "feed" the custom modes - and once you figure out the way the chapters are laid out, the menu is surprisingly easy to navigate, much more so than Leica's hodgepodge. The brilliant thing about Leica is the icons screen and the configuration system of the Fn buttons. After initial confusion, using both cameras (well, S5ii in my case) side by side became instinctive.

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[Jeff-w]

1 hour ago, wjdrijfhout said:

I only turned off the SL2 at the end of the day. For the rest I relied on sleep mode settings. When grabbing the camera from the bag, press the shutter button and camera is ready by the time you’ve got it in front of your eye. While I always carry a spare battery, I seldomly needed it, only after intens shooting. Make sure you keep the Bluetooth off, as this consumes a lot of energy, also in sleep mode. 

Thanks this is what i was hoping to hear!!