Fitting Leica plastic accessory finders (e.g. 28mm 12009 finder) to older M cameras

[F456]

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Unless I'm going about this the wrong way, I've discovered that it is very hard to fit these on to the shoe of my M4.  The finder in question is the 12009 28mm plastic finder and it appears that the two parallel 'rails' that lie in / on the top, cold shoe are stoppint the finder from sliding into place.  I have not had this problem with a more modern camera with a hot shoe, such as the M6.

So as I am reluctant to break the finder by applying too much force to try and slide it in, I'm posting this to see if there are any useful tips on making the attempt work, if it's indeed possible.

Not the end of the world if not: though I can't shoot without the finder  I can use the more modern body; however it will definitely help if there is a solution. Many thanks in advance!

I expect the same applies to my 21 and 24mm finders as they are identical designs apart from the optics themselves.

 

PS. The reason i can't shoot w/o the finder is not only that the older bodies don't have space inside the camera's finder  for the 28 or wider area but also I wear glasses so the visible area is further reduced.

Edited April 25 by F456

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[UliWer]

17 hours ago, F456 said:

The finder in question is the 12009 28mm plastic finder and it appears that the two parallel 'rails' that lie in / on the top, cold shoe are stoppint the finder from sliding into place.

12009 was the order number of the Tri-Elmar's hood. The 28mm plastic finder was 12017. It was made at the same time as the M4, so  it should fit. I am not sure whether the finder's foot is of metal, if so a tiny bit of vaseline or graphite might help. 

Edited April 26 by UliWer

[250swb]

The 12009 has a lock switch, make sure it isn't in the locked position when trying to fit it. I have the 12008 21mm version and the opposite is true, it's too loose on all my early M cameras even with the lock engaged.

[a.noctilux]

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/12017

Very strange.

Have a look, why ...

maybe the locking device is the "way" to see if too large.

 

[F456]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

12009 was the order number of the Tri-Elmar's hood. The 28mm plastic finder was 12017. It was made at the same time as the M4, so  it should fit. I am not sure whether the finder's foot is of metal, if so a tiny bit of vaseline or graphite might help. 

Thank you for your help. Confusingly there seem to be more than one black plastic 28mm finder and after another check I can confirm mine is a 12009 as in my last post. The only number I could find for Tri-Elmar hood was different but that might be that I found data for the wrong FLs Tri-Elmar.
But your advice still stands and I'll see how it goes. Perhaps the 12009 is a later design that is meant for hot shoes; M4-P and after (possibly M4-2 also?), and so doesn't cater for the 'rails' on the M4 cold shoe.

 

 

[F456]

20 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The 12009 has a lock switch, make sure it isn't in the locked position when trying to fit it. I have the 12008 21mm version and the opposite is true, it's too loose on all my early M cameras even with the lock engaged.

I have tried the lock switch both ways but to no avail. I will try on M6 when a chance next presents itself.  I don't want to break the assembly!

 

Thank you.

[pgk]

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FWIW I have the current, metal 21mm Finder. I have to bend out a strip on the foot in order to tighten it so that it is a good fit into the hot shoe. I've had various other Finders, including the plastic ones, in the past. Fit seems to vary and I would suggest that this is also true of the camera hotshoes too. Several of my Finders have needed tape sticking under them because they were too loose. So its worth trying your Finder on other cameras including other Leica Ms, because although hot shoe dimension are probably 'standardised' they may have tolerances which at times cause problems like you are having. 

[a.noctilux]

11 minutes ago, F456 said:

lock switch both ways

If the lock switch is lever type, try to unlock (toward left side), then see if the shoe slides in.

On my M4 the springs are pushed downward.

Try to push down those springs with fingers, just to see if they are not stuck.

 

[F456]

Thank you all for your help and advice.   I'll get there when I have a moment free. I think the Leica in question might just need to be ignored for a while, till it learns to behave itself. Probably it's indulging its "I know I'm just too beautiful" syndrome, despite being just over fifty years old.  I have to say that the black M4 in question is my favourite Leica body, along with a silver chrome M3 that vies for my attention.