28mm Summaron f5.6 rendering

[PaulJohn]

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I am up to my eyeballs in 28mm lens reviews and am intrigued with the 28mm 5.6 Summaron. I read that this is a classic rendering lens but despite looking at lots of images I am not sure whether I am seeing it yet. Of course I can see the vignetting but I would not buy a lens to obtain vignetting. I have read that it has its own colour signature but without a side by side comparison to the 28mm elmarit (or similar) I can't tell if the colours are more nostalgic or even desirable. There is little out of focus bokeh with a 28mm 5.6 so I am not even looking at that.

I like small lenses and this certainly is small but so is the elmarit and even the Voigtlander 28mm 1.5 is a nice size. 

So, has anyone seen side by side comparisons with the summaron vs another 28mm?

For those who have a summaron and another 28mm, how much vintage charm does this lens have? 

Who has owned this lens, sold it and don't regret selling?

TIA

Edited April 7 by PaulJohn

[pedaes]

9 minutes ago, PaulJohn said:

I read that this is a classic rendering lens

Where do you read this?  I have and love this lens but don't know what "a classic rendering" is. This lens has modern glass and coatings.

This Might help 

 

[PaulJohn]

8 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Where do you read this?  I have and love this lens but don't know what "a classic rendering" is. This lens has modern glass and coatings.

 

Sorry I can't remember I've seen too many reviews including the one you sent. It's possible I have misquoted. When you say It has modern glass I assume you don't mean that it has aspherical elements. Even if the coatings might reduce flare the lens formula is vintage / classical is it not?

[Ray Vonn]

The rendering appears "modern" to me too, insofar as there doesn't appear, to my eyes at least, much if anything, apart from the badge, to separate it from the Voigtlander/ TTArtisans current 28mm offerings. Maybe I'm wrong so I look forward to the responses here and thanks to @PaulJohn for starting the thread.

[pedaes]

5 minutes ago, PaulJohn said:

formula is vintage

The lens elements/formula are as original, but the elements themselves are made from modern (ie current) glass. The glass the original was made from will no longer be available.

I see Leica Store Manchester has a couple of 'used' ones, so why don't you ask to try a few shots with one.

[Dazzajl]

I have the Ttartisan version of this lens and have spent a while getting all the info I can on the new Leica version, to see if I thought the upgrade was worth it. From what I’ve gathered, it’s a replica of the 1950s design, so in that sense it should be a ‘classic rendering’ but as mentioned, the glass will be modern. 
 

I can also tell you that the Leica version has more bite and contrast than the Ttartisan and is also sharper with brighter colours. For these reasons, I decided that the Tta was the one for me. I like the very LoFi look I get from mine, it delivers exactly what I want from it. I would like the Leica build quality, though the much much cheaper replica is still very decent. 

Whichever version, there is a 7artisans as well, a 28mm f5.6 lens is a fabulous thing to have. It’s ridiculously tiny and really makes you work for good composition as there’s nowhere to hide

Edited April 7 by Dazzajl
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[pedaes]

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30 minutes ago, PaulJohn said:

too many reviews

Does this include Reid Reviews? I know it is a subscription site, but going into it in the depth you are it might be helpful.

https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html (for some reason you will find it just below 21mm lenses!)

Edited April 7 by pedaes

[PaulJohn]

27 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Does this include Reid Reviews? I know it is a subscription site, but going into it in the depth you are it might be helpful.

https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html (for some reason you will find it just below 21mm lenses!)

No I havent tried Mr Reid yet. Thanks for suggestion.

[Crem]

1 hour ago, PaulJohn said:

I am up to my eyeballs in 28mm lens reviews and am intrigued with the 28mm 5.6 Summaron. I read that this is a classic rendering lens but despite looking at lots of images I am not sure whether I am seeing it yet. Of course I can see the vignetting but I would not buy a lens to obtain vignetting. I have read that it has its own colour signature but without a side by side comparison to the 28mm elmarit (or similar) I can't tell if the colours are more nostalgic or even desirable. There is little out of focus bokeh with a 28mm 5.6 so I am not even looking at that.

I like small lenses and this certainly is small but so is the elmarit and even the Voigtlander 28mm 1.5 is a nice size. 

So, has anyone seen side by side comparisons with the summaron vs another 28mm?

For those who have a summaron and another 28mm, how much vintage charm does this lens have? 

Who has owned this lens, sold it and don't regret selling?

TIA

I own the Summaron 28 (modern version) and the Summicron 28 ASPH (v2, the previous non-close focus version). Previously owned the latest version Elmarit. I'm sure you've read about both lenses so I won't repeat what's out there. I wouldn't call the Summaron 28 "vintage charm", but I would call it very unique and difficult to replicate using other lenses (with filters and post production). I can't comment on the TTArtisans version. I have never compared the modern M mount version to the original screw mount version, but I've always wondered how they compare. I would definitely ask yourself if you are ok with 1m minimum focus. For a lot of people I imagine that's a deal breaker, but if you get past it the Summaron 28 is good fun. I would very much like to try the Mandler era Elmarit 28 v3 at some point. What specific "vintage charm" lenses do you like and want to see in a 28?

After owning and using the Summaron and Steel Rim reissue lenses I have come to the conclusion that they are modern re-interpretations of vintage lenses with modern features (glass & coatings). They are not pixel perfect clones of the actual vintage lenses. I think it's great that we have choice. If you want true vintage rendering then you likely want true vintage lenses. 

Edited April 7 by Crem

[JoshuaR]

I owned the Summaron for a while and shot it alongside my modern 28 Elmarit ASPH and Summicron ASPH. In the end, I kept only the Summicron. The Summaron is definitely not a modern lens! It has its own signature which I find basically impossible to describe.

I liked it, and I miss it sometimes, and I appreciated the way it rendered images, especially for landscapes. But I didn't like what it did to faces or skin tones, and since I mainly take pictures of my family, that was a problem; and I didn't like owning a lens that basically only worked outdoors. So I don't miss it.

Here are some images that—to me—show the "Summaron look."

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[JoshuaR]

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[JoshuaR]

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These are all on an M10-R. So, there's vignetting, a certain 'dusky' and warm look to the colors, a kind of 'graphic' sharpness, and some unusual flare. Like I said, I struggle to describe it. It's cool! But in the end, I felt like I preferred other 'vintage' lenses and let the Summaron go.

Edited April 7 by JoshuaR

[Dazzajl]

Those images do have a lovely look. As you say, not exactly vintage but also quite unique in its look. 

For comparison in case anyone is interested in how the Tta sits next to the real thing, here are a few images. This lives on my M246 and they're processed to emphasise it's natural gritty "charcoal drawing" look.

 

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[tom0511]

I own the Summaron and also 28/2.0 ash.

For my taste I do really like the Summaron. The corners are a little mushy , there is some vignetting , but the overall image look is very "film like, natural, organic" sorry for those three words !

If you are after perfection the Summicron is better, for me, if there is enough light, the Summaron is fun. I would not sell it.

[PaulJohn]

5 hours ago, Crem said:

I would definitely ask yourself if you are ok with 1m minimum focus. For a lot of people I imagine that's a deal breaker, but if you get past it the Summaron 28 is good fun. I would very much like to try the Mandler era Elmarit 28 v3 at some point. What specific "vintage charm" lenses do you like and want to see in a 28?

After owning and using the Summaron and Steel Rim reissue lenses I have come to the conclusion that they are modern re-interpretations of vintage lenses with modern features (glass & coatings). They are not pixel perfect clones of the actual vintage lenses. I think it's great that we have choice. If you want true vintage rendering then you likely want true vintage lenses. 

It's character that I seek rather than vintage rendering. I like to have options and already suspect that I will get the summaron. From what I am seeing the character of this lens is the vignetting AND the sharpness fall off which goes appeal.

I am not very experienced in vintage glass. I own the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3 (recent purchase) and the Voigtlander 35mm 1.4 classic II MC (I am not a fan of flare so chose the MC rather than SC coatings). I have had a lot of fun with these lenses and still am a long way from predicting how they will render in certain conditions. I love the glow but need to learn how to control it. I also like character bokeh. I know that the Summaron is not offering this and I am still interested/intrigued. Ownership now looks inevitable.

[stephengv]

6 hours ago, JoshuaR said:

I owned the Summaron for a while and shot it alongside my modern 28 Elmarit ASPH and Summicron ASPH. In the end, I kept only the Summicron. The Summaron is definitely not a modern lens! It has its own signature which I find basically impossible to describe.

I liked it, and I miss it sometimes, and I appreciated the way it rendered images, especially for landscapes. But I didn't like what it did to faces or skin tones, and since I mainly take pictures of my family, that was a problem; and I didn't like owning a lens that basically only worked outdoors. So I don't miss it.

Here are some images that—to me—show the "Summaron look."

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Interesting rendering. Did you edited these pictures? or are these straight from the camera?

[Crem]

2 hours ago, PaulJohn said:

It's character that I seek rather than vintage rendering. I like to have options and already suspect that I will get the summaron. From what I am seeing the character of this lens is the vignetting AND the sharpness fall off which goes appeal.

I am not very experienced in vintage glass. I own the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3 (recent purchase) and the Voigtlander 35mm 1.4 classic II MC (I am not a fan of flare so chose the MC rather than SC coatings). I have had a lot of fun with these lenses and still am a long way from predicting how they will render in certain conditions. I love the glow but need to learn how to control it. I also like character bokeh. I know that the Summaron is not offering this and I am still interested/intrigued. Ownership now looks inevitable.

I also like character lenses. The 50 Summilux pre-asph v3 is my favorite 50 of all time and I've used a lot of 50s. I pair it with a Summilux 35 v2 pre-asph and these two lenses make up probably 90% of my photos these days. Another forum member recommended I check out the Elmarit 28:2.8v3. I believe it was in production at the same time as the 50 and 35 pre-asph lenses so I imagine it would pair well with them being it's from the same time period. I'm assuming you like that Mandler rendering which is why I'm mentioning it. I don't own it (yet) and it's high on my list to try out.

The modern Summaron 28 rendering really is its own lens of sorts. Perhaps it's the modern glass or coatings, but mine is very sharp in the center at F5.6. Definitely seems as sharp as my Summicron 28 at F5.6 in the center. I wasn't originally expecting this for a lens based on a 1950s design. These days I treat the classic reissue lenses as a separate category from vintage lenses and modern ones. To my eyes the Summaron 28 is a different flavor of character from the pre-asph Summilux lenses. Both are great in my opinion and unique.

Edited April 8 by Crem

[sinjun]

It is one of my favourite lenses with a character definitely all of its own. Whether you would call it vintage, I don't know - I associate that term with aberrations aparent at large apertures. I thought I might find the f5.6 limiting but in practice not for 95% of my shooting. I would add that most character lenses require shooting at large aperture to reveal that character, and I find it nice to use one for which that is not the case - you don't have to worry about critical focus, for instance, and it can lend a special look to landscapes.

[PaulJohn]

I found a video with side by side comparisons with Leica Q2.

I was able to screen grab the Summaron and the Q2 photos and use LR to mimic the Summaron rather well. It's not perfect by any means but it's close enough to a level where one is not 'better' than the other. At least to me. My alterations were primarily a radial filter to vignette and soften the corners and tweaks to HSL, WB and Presence. Interestingly what worked for one photo did not work for the other photos. They required different adjustments so I am nowhere near creating a preset that mimics the summaron for all subjects/conditions.

No doubt part of the charm of this lens is using it. That's another subject.

Edited April 8 by PaulJohn

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[JoshuaR]

16 hours ago, stephengv said:

Interesting rendering. Did you edited these pictures? or are these straight from the camera?

They're edited, inasmuch as I apply the same preset to every picture when I import it. But the character in the pictures is from the lens.